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Old 03-03-2015, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,538,049 times
Reputation: 7830

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Our founding fathers were Christians. Do you actually think that they intended equal rights to include gay marriage? There was no slippery slope they were valid arguments. Still trying to browbeat me into holding your views? Why are liberals intent on changing other people's views to theirs? Believe what you want and leave the rest of us alone but liberals just can't seem to do that.
Do you think the founding fathers also intend on blacks being free, legal Americans? Slippery slope I tell ya.

Also, No one is forcing you to get gay married, go to a gay marriage, or even accept gay marriage. All people want is to legally marry without out your judgment trying to deny them that right.
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:54 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,075,025 times
Reputation: 7282
Personal characteristics of the founders have nothing to do with government matters. They deliberately chosenoto to advocate a religion of any kind in association with the rights of individuals.
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Old 03-03-2015, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,347 posts, read 15,795,936 times
Reputation: 9877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Our founding fathers were Christians. Do you actually think that they intended equal rights to include gay marriage? There was no slippery slope they were valid arguments. Still trying to browbeat me into holding your views? Why are liberals intent on changing other people's views to theirs? Believe what you want and leave the rest of us alone but liberals just can't seem to do that.
I believe an earlier post by you said that one should not pick and chose what parts of the constitution you should follow, you follow it all. Making the "It's against Christian value" argument, is going against separation of church and state, an original part of the Bill of Rights. Separation of church and state is in there meaning religions don't have an influence on government. Your argument about Christianity being the basis for not recognizing gay marriage is just that, using a church argument to influence state law.
I do doubt the founding fathers would have been pro-gay marriage as women and blacks didn't have equal rights for years later but the issue is you are using an argument that the founding fathers wish wasn't the case. Hell, slavery was allowed by the constitution until it was outlawed nearly 80 years after ratification of the constitution. However, I don't think any of these arguments were really religiously influenced.

As for if you were your argument was using the slippery slope, it was. You are saying because we would now allow gay marriage, we would now have to recognize incestuous marriage, polygamous marriage or marrying animals eventually. I urge of you to read the below articles and then think back to your posts or even re-read them and ask yourself "Am I arguing the slippery slope argument?"
Beware of the Gay Marriage Slippery Slope*|*William Dameron
Slippery slop.
Gay marriage and the 'slippery slope' - LA Times
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Old 03-04-2015, 06:19 AM
 
36,948 posts, read 16,396,469 times
Reputation: 9941
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I believe an earlier post by you said that one should not pick and chose what parts of the constitution you should follow, you follow it all. Making the "It's against Christian value" argument, is going against separation of church and state, an original part of the Bill of Rights. Separation of church and state is in there meaning religions don't have an influence on government. Your argument about Christianity being the basis for not recognizing gay marriage is just that, using a church argument to influence state law.
I do doubt the founding fathers would have been pro-gay marriage as women and blacks didn't have equal rights for years later but the issue is you are using an argument that the founding fathers wish wasn't the case. Hell, slavery was allowed by the constitution until it was outlawed nearly 80 years after ratification of the constitution. However, I don't think any of these arguments were really religiously influenced.

As for if you were your argument was using the slippery slope, it was. You are saying because we would now allow gay marriage, we would now have to recognize incestuous marriage, polygamous marriage or marrying animals eventually. I urge of you to read the below articles and then think back to your posts or even re-read them and ask yourself "Am I arguing the slippery slope argument?"
Beware of the Gay Marriage Slippery Slope*|*William Dameron
Slippery slop.
Gay marriage and the 'slippery slope' - LA Times
There is nothing in the Constitution that advocates for gay marriage and I don't care what lame argument you come up to support it. So there is no reason to continue this discussion with me anymore and no need for me to respond anymore.
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Old 03-04-2015, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,724 posts, read 11,225,885 times
Reputation: 6150
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Do you think the founding fathers also intend on blacks being free, legal Americans? Slippery slope I tell ya.

Also, No one is forcing you to get gay married, go to a gay marriage, or even accept gay marriage. All people want is to legally marry without out your judgment trying to deny them that right.
Disagree. Government uses force to make others others accept gay marriage. And that's the rub. Because government has gotten involved with marriage an individual/business has to accept gay marriage if the state says so.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:25 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,547 posts, read 33,820,661 times
Reputation: 14260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Our founding fathers were Christians. Do you actually think that they intended equal rights to include gay marriage? There was no slippery slope they were valid arguments. Still trying to browbeat me into holding your views? Why are liberals intent on changing other people's views to theirs? Believe what you want and leave the rest of us alone but liberals just can't seem to do that.

Not all our founding fathers were Christian.
Many Quakers and many Deist in the mix.
George Washington didn't believe in Christ, but he did believe in a GOD.
Thomas Jefferson Bible says all you need to know about Jeffersons Christianity.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:40 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,547 posts, read 33,820,661 times
Reputation: 14260
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Do you think the founding fathers also intend on blacks being free, legal Americans? Slippery slope I tell ya.

If you would learn your history instead of making it up as you go along, that is exactly what they intended as there were 3 black founding fathers.
The Original Constitution stated just that.

Now, trying to get the South to join the union it wasn't going to work. The Slave states were going to be their own nation and it didn't matter to them one way or another. they were going to walk away and keep their vast wealth, from the idea of the union, including them. They only joined the union because of the 3/5 compromise, which was abolished in 1860, when congress refused to pass an amendment reversing the 3/5 compromise.
This caused a Civil War, to become their own nation as originally intended, after the revolution.
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,347 posts, read 15,795,936 times
Reputation: 9877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Disagree. Government uses force to make others others accept gay marriage. And that's the rub. Because government has gotten involved with marriage an individual/business has to accept gay marriage if the state says so.
Yes because it is equal protection under the law as granted by the 14th amendment (which is why any gay marriage ban should really be living on borrowed time as it is a right as granted being a part of the United States.) Businesses do have a right to refuse service but not based on race or sex, which is why Arizona's SB 1062 never got passed last year (a bill proposing religious businesses could legally discriminate against those that don't believe in the religious beliefs of the customer, especially against LGBT and those that may support it or may not but go in wearing a rainbow shirt.)
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,347 posts, read 15,795,936 times
Reputation: 9877
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
If you would learn your history instead of making it up as you go along, that is exactly what they intended as there were 3 black founding fathers.
The Original Constitution stated just that.

Now, trying to get the South to join the union it wasn't going to work. The Slave states were going to be their own nation and it didn't matter to them one way or another. they were going to walk away and keep their vast wealth, from the idea of the union, including them. They only joined the union because of the 3/5 compromise, which was abolished in 1860, when congress refused to pass an amendment reversing the 3/5 compromise.
This caused a Civil War, to become their own nation as originally intended, after the revolution.
The Compromise was still on the books until 1865 with the combined effect of the 13th amendment was ratified. The South left in 1861 because of the fear of Lincoln striking down slavery and adversely affecting their economy (which actually did happen after the Civil War ended) after beating Douglas and Beckenridge in the 1860 election.
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:59 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,547 posts, read 33,820,661 times
Reputation: 14260
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Yes because it is equal protection under the law as granted by the 14th amendment (which is why any gay marriage ban should really be living on borrowed time as it is a right as granted being a part of the United States.) Businesses do have a right to refuse service but not based on race or sex, which is why Arizona's SB 1062 never got passed last year (a bill proposing religious businesses could legally discriminate against those that don't believe in the religious beliefs of the customer, especially against LGBT and those that may support it or may not but go in wearing a rainbow shirt.)

The Federal state and local government may not be able to discriminate based upon those things, but I as an individual person have every right to discriminate against who ever I wish for what ever reason I wish. That is my 1st amendment right.
The Constitution chains the government. The various state constitutions chain the state governments. They do not chain down free people. Or we are not really free and we only have liberties the government allows.... Called privileges.
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