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Old 04-04-2015, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,287 posts, read 8,235,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Gay: of, relating to, or exhibiting sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex

having sex with someone of the same sex, is a behavior, is it not?
Yes, a person may have sex with another person of the same sex, or a person may have sex with another person of the opposite sex (or in any combination at the same time). As I have said several times. I mean, this is pretty trivial, why are you so stuck on reiterating it?
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Old 04-04-2015, 07:29 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,515,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Yes, a person may have sex with another person of the same sex, or a person may have sex with another person of the opposite sex (or in any combination at the same time). As I have said several times. I mean, this is pretty trivial, why are you so stuck on reiterating it?
I'm not the one who keeps creating threads on gays.. I simply responded to this one, and quoted the definition of the word "gay".

Why is that so upsetting to you?
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Old 04-04-2015, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,287 posts, read 8,235,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I'm not the one who keeps creating threads on gays.. I simply responded to this one, and quoted the definition of the word "gay".
I didn't create this thread either. So what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Why is that so upsetting to you?
Why would you think I'm upset? We have different takes on the word gay. You seem to think that a person becomes gay after an incidence of gay sex, and then, presumably, can just as easily turn straight after an incidence of straight sex. I'm disagreeing with that view.

And then I am asking, if people really worked the way you are suggesting they work, why do you think anyone would care whether a person is gay or straight? - since, according to you, it is so easy to turn a straight person into a gay one, and, presumably, back into a straight person.

Don't answer if you don't want to, makes no never mind to me.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:45 AM
 
40,143 posts, read 24,369,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Were they or were they not gay, during their times of incarceration given ANY of the examples above?

yes, yes they were.
Actually no.

There are many homosexuals who deny their own preferences, who marry members of the opposite sex, who have sex with members of the opposite sex, who even have children. It doesn't make them heterosexual. Their innate preference is for someone of the same sex. Their sexual range allows them to get aroused by someone of the opposite sex. But their preference is still for someone of the same sex. Their preference is always for someone of the same sex. The sex drive is simply so strong that people can choose to have sex with people that are not of their preference. In prison, where women aren't available, the sex drive is so strong that many heterosexuals (people who prefer to have sex with the opposite gender) will have sex with people of the same gender. But their preference is not changed. They are still heterosexuals settling for what's available to them.
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Old 04-06-2015, 12:04 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,093 posts, read 16,626,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sxrckr View Post
Are you all sure you just don't have a problem with black people accomplished in something outside of politics?
We're sure. You?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
1. Ben carson is smarter than you and I put together. This would still be true if you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express for the next 30 days.

2. Is he factually correct? How many people (percentage) of men engage in gay sex in prison? How many in the general population?
If you were to analyze the stats then you might conclude that Dr Carson is correct.
1. The problem is he so rarely demonstrates it when he opens his mouth.
2. Prison does not change one's basic sexual orientation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Most people, and I am one of them, took Carson's comment to mean that prison experiences can change a person's basic sexual orientation, as the words "come out" are associated with a gay person's decision to go public.

So no, Carson's statement that prison homosexual sex changes a heterosexual man into a homosexual one is counterfactual. And the same thing goes, of course, for women prisoners.

AFAIK, Carson has not clarified whether he meant something different.
You took it that way because that is exactly what he said. He should just keep talking and talking all the way up to the election.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:44 PM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,243,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
We're sure. You?



1. The problem is he so rarely demonstrates it when he opens his mouth.
2. Prison does not change one's basic sexual orientation.



You took it that way because that is exactly what he said. He should just keep talking and talking all the way up to the election.
Are you an expert on prison behaviors and how it changes people? If so, then I'd like to hear more. Have you listened to ben carson? He always sounds intelligent.
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Old 04-10-2015, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,287 posts, read 8,235,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
Are you an expert on prison behaviors and how it changes people? If so, then I'd like to hear more. Have you listened to ben carson? He always sounds intelligent.
The judgment of his peers is that he is a very good brain surgeon, which is a significant accomplishment, and I am sure that when he talks about brain surgery, he does sound intelligent.

But when it comes to homosexuality - no, he doesn't sound intelligent at all.

Prison does change people's behaviors and attitudes, some for the better and some for the worse. But there is no evidence that people's innate sexual orientation changes readily with experience. If it did, it would be common to see people switching back and forth as they lived their lives. But that isn't common at all.

People who have gotten out of heterosexual relationships and into homosexual ones don't say "oh, I just thought it was time for a change." They say "finally, I'm not living a lie anymore."
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:59 AM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,243,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
The judgment of his peers is that he is a very good brain surgeon, which is a significant accomplishment, and I am sure that when he talks about brain surgery, he does sound intelligent.

But when it comes to homosexuality - no, he doesn't sound intelligent at all.

Prison does change people's behaviors and attitudes, some for the better and some for the worse. But there is no evidence that people's innate sexual orientation changes readily with experience. If it did, it would be common to see people switching back and forth as they lived their lives. But that isn't common at all.

People who have gotten out of heterosexual relationships and into homosexual ones don't say "oh, I just thought it was time for a change." They say "finally, I'm not living a lie anymore."
Some of them do, yes. But there are also bisexuals... And, there are also people who do not know what they are so they experiment. I knew a lesbian who switched back and got married to a man. She was bi-polar. I wouldn't be surprised if many actual gays were bi-polar.

You say that it would be common to see people switching back and forth all the time? Maybe this doesn't occur (outside of prison) because most people (heterosexuals) have no desire to be gay?
You say that there is no evidence that sexual orientation is not affected by life situations or experience? Do you have evidence that there is no evidence? It seems that a large % of gays have had abnormal experiences with sexuality or during childhood-teenage years.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Utah
546 posts, read 325,544 times
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The point most people seem to be missing is that a great deal of prison sex is rape, and rape isn't about sexual gratification, it's about power and domination. If the main purpose were release, they could scratch that itch with their own hand.

I wouldn't rule out the idea that some overly macho, violent "tough guy" prisoners spend their lives overcompensating for latent homosexuality prior to prison, and once introduced (even if forcibly), they realize they like it. Prison isn't turning them gay, but by trying it, they realize what their true inclinations are, and act accordingly once freed.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,287 posts, read 8,235,345 times
Reputation: 10672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
Some of them do, yes. But there are also bisexuals... And, there are also people who do not know what they are so they experiment. I knew a lesbian who switched back and got married to a man. She was bi-polar. I wouldn't be surprised if many actual gays were bi-polar.
It's true, orientation is not always binary.

I too have known people who experimented. But the people I knew didn't experiment long, because they concluded they really did prefer one sex over the other, and experimenting wasn't going to change that.

In a lifetime of being a foot soldier in the sexual revolution, I have known maybe a couple of people who seemed to be truly bisexual. I think it really doesn't happen that often. I think most of the time what we are seeing is experimentation. Although I also think that if social pressures regarding gay vs straight were not so extreme, we might see more bisexual people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
You say that it would be common to see people switching back and forth all the time? Maybe this doesn't occur (outside of prison) because most people (heterosexuals) have no desire to be gay?
Well, duh. Now I encourage you to take the next small, logical step, and wrap your head around the idea that most gay people have no desire to be straight. Because of the extreme prejudice against gays, many have fooled or forced themselves into straight relationships, but that doesn't mean it was what they truly desired. And of course, many straight people, both men and women, over the centuries were - and still are - forced into straight marriages with partners they don't really want. So we know that people can have sex with people they don't desire, often for years, and that experience *does not change* their basic sexual orientation.

My point is that sexual preferences don't change very easily, if at all, in response to social experiences. I think many single people have had the experience of looking at their social circle and thinking to themselves "if only that person was a different gender..." If most people truly could, by their actions, turn themselves into someone who truly desired the other gender than the one they had always preferred, why would SSM be an issue at all? We'd see the switch all the time. But - we don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
You say that there is no evidence that sexual orientation is not affected by life situations or experience? Do you have evidence that there is no evidence? It seems that a large % of gays have had abnormal experiences with sexuality or during childhood-teenage years.
No, no statistical data. Just a lifetime of people-watching, including watching my own emotions. Do men who had gay relationships in prison continue to prefer men after they get out, or do they go back to straight relationships?

For your second question, first you'd have to determine whether gay people experienced more sex abuse as children than do straight people. Do boys who had sexual relations with other boys or men (consensual or not) wind up gay or straight? Do girls who had sexual relations with boys or men (consensual or not) grow up gay or straight? And of course, the current thinking is that children are not blank slates. Do you really think it would be abnormal for a gay boy to be attracted to another boy or to a man?
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