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Old 04-09-2015, 08:08 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,720 posts, read 16,469,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace21230 View Post
The Democrat Party is going to try and make it about social issues. That's how they win when they do win - using wedge issues to pit Americans against each other.
Really, we don't have to say a thing. Just let the Aiken's of the party spout off about the miracle of Rape. Let the party chairman accuse people like Colin Powell of voting based on race. You offended America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
IMO the GOP should completely drop social issues entirely. Sadly, we know that this won't happen because of the Tea Party and the "Religious Right" but if you ask me this is a necessity to make the party viable outside of the Bible Belt and very rural states.

When California and Rhode Island alone have more votes in the Electoral College than the 10 most Republican leaning states it is painfully clear that we need to change our tune.
The GOP has allowed themselves to be taken over by Teabaggers and conservative christians who want to push their version of fundamentalism on everyone.

The Americal people have rejected that twice. I agree with your post.

Make it about the economy; let the candidate make it clear that his/her personal views on abortion are his personal views but he will NOT try and overturn Roe V Wade or introduce further restrictions. Same with Same sex marriage; personal views are personal but that he/she believes all Americans deserve to be treated fairly.

Then - give some love to the Middle Class for a change.
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Old 04-09-2015, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,395,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
IMO the GOP should completely drop social issues entirely. Sadly, we know that this won't happen because of the Tea Party and the "Religious Right" but if you ask me this is a necessity to make the party viable outside of the Bible Belt and very rural states.

When California and Rhode Island alone have more votes in the Electoral College than the 10 most Republican leaning states it is painfully clear that we need to change our tune.

Remaining silent on the social issues gives that entire agenda over the Democrats to make political hay, unless you are suggesting that the GOP actively adopt a "me-too" position actually advocating for government paid abortion, gun control, and the rest.

I don't think that helps them out, unless they also start pushing for more social programs, get open to higher taxes to fund them, more money for big city transit program and high speed rail, even more influence to the labor unions. These are the things that really boost the vote in the large cities, where people vote their pocketbooks.

After that happens, we might as well all just stay home, with no real policy differences between the two parties.
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Old 04-09-2015, 04:58 PM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,234,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
California voted 52% for Prop 8, 47% against Prop 8 just six years ago. In those six years, we have seen the needle tick towards giving gays their rights. What we forget was that for the blacks and women, their rights didn't come overnight either and it took time for people to be more in favor of them. FYI, the issue with Prop 8 was that the law is unconstitutional due to the 14th Amendment.

The media talked about it because it is a big issue to cause family table discussions. That is the reason they beat things into the ground. It happened with "Hands up, don't shoot" several months ago. Instead of blacks, this time it is now the gays again. Arizona had a similar law proposed last year but it never truly went anywhere besides talk and being proposed in the AZ Senate.



I think if 20 other states passed the laws, we'd see several lawsuits filed and injunctions to prevent the law because of equal protection under the law (one of the clauses that caused Prop 8 to be unconstitutional.) Once the first law is ruled unconstitutional, the others will be repealed and if not challenged and ruled unconstitutional because of the precedent from the first law. That is if social and business pressure don't initiate change.
Lawsuits? Thats always the answer isn't it? You mentioned that the needle has ticked towards gays but thats a partial truth. The majority of americans don't support gay rights, they support human rights. We are tired of hearing about gays.

You're going to defend the "hands up don't shoot". What about the police officer who has had his life turned upside down? Does he have no rights? With liberals, the criminals are the victims!
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Old 04-09-2015, 05:02 PM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,234,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMama View Post
Personally, I hope the Republican focus is NOT on social issues.

While Christians still make up a large majority of the US population, there is also a large contingent that believe the Federal government should have Constitutionally based limited powers, and if there is to be any legislation on social issues, it should be on the local and state governments to reflect the desires of their constituents.

We are a diverse country, and values differ in different areas. There is no-one-size-fits-all determination of what social values, if any, should be legislated.

If only the GOP candidate would say "It doesn't matter what I think about (social issue X), in terms of how I would run the country, because I will veto any legislation from the right or the left about it. If an issue is not directly relevant to the enumerated powers in the Constitution, it is properly left to the individual states to handle. If you want laws about (social issue X), please contact your Governor and State legislature."...

Some would call it a cop-out, some would be scrambling for their dictionaries for the definition of "enumerated", some would consider it Tea Party nonsense, but maybe others might agree their issues are better addressed at lower levels, with less bureaucracy and greater levels of accountability, in accordance with the values of their community.

I can dream, anyway...
This line of thinking will guarantee the dems a victory. We need to talk about social issues because it effects so many people. Do we want gays bullying christians? Do we want a weaker police force because they can't enforce the law without fear of being labled a racist? Do we want partial birth abortion? These are issues that the GOP wins "IF" they talk about it!
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Old 04-09-2015, 05:34 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,017,029 times
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Amen, WIHS2006, but the base is not sane enough to allow that to happen.
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Old 04-09-2015, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,395,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Amen, WIHS2006, but the base is not sane enough to allow that to happen.
I don't think the base has a say in it.

The Republican establishment will nominate who they want.

Whether they'll win or not by totally alienating social issue voters or not, that's another question.
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Old 04-09-2015, 06:02 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,017,029 times
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Social issues lose millions of swing voters, Those states are not radical right wing states. They are also the sole path for any GOP POTUS possibility.
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Old 04-09-2015, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,395,092 times
Reputation: 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Social issues lose millions of swing voters, Those states are not radical right wing states. They are also the sole path for any GOP POTUS possibility.
Neither McCain nor Romney gave two hoots about social issues- barely a word during the fall 2012 campaign, and he still got crushed.

I wouldn't be too sure.


But we will see, I'm expecting the GOP to nominate another moderate in 2016. We see what happens in this election, I don't think it will be pretty for the Republican, but you *could* be proven right.
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Old 04-09-2015, 06:23 PM
 
26,302 posts, read 12,780,504 times
Reputation: 12539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
This line of thinking will guarantee the dems a victory. We need to talk about social issues because it effects so many people. Do we want gays bullying christians? Do we want a weaker police force because they can't enforce the law without fear of being labled a racist? Do we want partial birth abortion? These are issues that the GOP wins "IF" they talk about it!
Sorry, but no. That is EXACTLY how you lose. Great, you win the self identified conservatives, and lose EVERYONE else. While you, and a certain % of everyone else around agrees with you, the majority do not.

The MAJORITY are for gays having rights. Just because you feel strongly about it doesn't somehow make a candidate a winner because the minority really really like him.
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Old 04-09-2015, 06:28 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,017,029 times
Reputation: 7282
I Like Spam, The nominee need not talk nutty when 2nd city players like the Akins of the party do. The GOP needs to get its runts , wrecking its image, in line. They also need the nominee to lead the charge against RWNJ's like Akins. Publicly.

This years nominee should harshly take Indiana's Pence to task.
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