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Old 04-11-2015, 10:45 AM
 
77,982 posts, read 33,265,332 times
Reputation: 15590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
My god, can you think without the liberal democrats telling you what to think?

How about the government acting only in the way the constitution states, does not try to interfere in the day to day lives of citizens and allow people to solve their own problems? Is that too much of a stretch
for liberals to allow?

Can you even conceive of what kind of country we would have were this to come to pass?
How does a 21 year old solve the problem of a $160,000 medical bill for cancer?

 
Old 04-11-2015, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,143 posts, read 15,682,515 times
Reputation: 9814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
My god, can you think without the liberal democrats telling you what to think?
Actually yes I can. Can you without conservative talking points?

Quote:
How about the government acting only in the way the constitution states, does not try to interfere in the day to day lives of citizens and allow people to solve their own problems? Is that too much of a stretch
for liberals to allow?
And the Constitution constantly changes based on Supreme Court interpretations of amendments and original structure of the Constitution itself as well as the elastic clause as well as about every 20 or so years a new amendment being ratified. The problem is what your interpretation of the constitution is different than everyone else's. You may hit points that others do but it's not exacts.

As for solving their own problems, they may but as pknopp mentioned 160K for cancer treatment at ANY point of life (in particularly the 20s) is a huge problem that an individual has little resources to solve their own problem. They can pay it off but remember that average student loan debt is about 16% of the debt for cancer treatment and many people have trouble paying those off. Say you are a minimalist making 45K a year and spend 50% of income based on taxes and COL, you put away 20% and pay off of the debt with 30% of your income or about 13.6K a year. Without including inflation causing an increase in COL or raises, you would pay that off WITHOUT interest in almost eight and a half years.

Quote:
Can you even conceive of what kind of country we would have were this to come to pass?
Can you imagine the type of nation you propose, it may not be anarchy but you'll have a lot of issues because your parents will have to save more money because they won't have social security or medicare, medicaid will be all but eradicated, we'll have more homeless people, etc. That is unless these programs are necessary and proper...
 
Old 04-11-2015, 03:26 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,233,263 times
Reputation: 3602
[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Quote:

Actually yes I can. Can you without conservative talking points?
Yes I can and constantly do, as demonstrated by my posts. You, on the other hand, not so much.


Quote:

And the Constitution constantly changes based on Supreme Court
interpretations of amendments and original structure of the Constitution itself
as well as the elastic clause as well as about every 20 or so years a new
amendment being ratified. The problem is what your interpretation of the
constitution is different than everyone else's. You may hit points that others
do but it's not exacts.
The actual Constitution does not change. Merely the way the current batch of politicians wish to bend it to their desires. Look up the dates of ratification and check on your incorrect assumptions as to how often. As usual, wrong again.

Quote:

As for solving their own problems, they may but as pknopp mentioned 160K for
cancer treatment at ANY point of life (in particularly the 20s) is a huge
problem that an individual has little resources to solve their own problem. They
can pay it off but remember that average student loan debt is about 16% of the
debt for cancer treatment and many people have trouble paying those off. Say you
are a minimalist making 45K a year and spend 50% of income based on taxes and
COL, you put away 20% and pay off of the debt with 30% of your income or about
13.6K a year. Without including inflation causing an increase in COL or raises,
you would pay that off WITHOUT interest in almost eight and a half years.
And again your version of the what if game. You can make what if and set the parameters to suit your own venal desires. Change of the rules is long overdue, whether you like it or not.

Quote:



Can you imagine the type of nation you propose, it may not be anarchy but
you'll have a lot of issues because your parents will have to save more money
because they won't have social security or medicare, medicaid will be all but
eradicated, we'll have more homeless people, etc. That is unless these programs
are necessary and proper...
Can you imagine a nation of actual freedom and not government micro management? I doubt it since you seem to require them to tell you what to do and think.
 
Old 04-11-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,233,263 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
How does a 21 year old solve the problem of a $160,000 medical bill for cancer?
Same way that the government does, deficit spending and borrowing.
 
Old 04-11-2015, 04:22 PM
 
77,982 posts, read 33,265,332 times
Reputation: 15590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Same way that the government does, deficit spending and borrowing.
Swell but the 21 year can't just print money but you know that. Now I'll continue to wait for an answer.
 
Old 04-11-2015, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,143 posts, read 15,682,515 times
Reputation: 9814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Can you imagine a nation of actual freedom and not government micro management? I doubt it since you seem to require them to tell you what to do and think.
Nice adhom attack. Part of the problem is we (as a nation) have seen freedom in the 1800's but that only existed for white males who were land owners. State governments in the south didn't give rights to African-Americans at all and women couldn't vote until the 1900's. Yeah, that's a nation of freedom alright I prefer "daddy government" over idiots who want to deny rights because of racism, sexism or financial standing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Same way that the government does, deficit spending and borrowing.
Which you can only do so much of before it balloons. Remember unlike a government, an individual faces penalties if it balloons too much. If you can't pay your bills eventually you end up in court or out of your house and no car. The government isn't.
 
Old 04-11-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,233,263 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Quote:

Nice adhom attack. Part of the problem is we (as a nation) have seen freedom
in the 1800's but that only existed for white males who were land owners. State
governments in the south didn't give rights to African-Americans at all and
women couldn't vote until the 1900's. Yeah, that's a nation of freedom
alright I prefer "daddy government" over idiots who want to
deny rights because of racism, sexism or financial standing.
Speaking of denial, that must be where you reside. The government did not "give" rights to minorities, they acknowledged them after people fought for them and died for them. Then the government stepped in to take credit for what they were forced to do. Nice of you to admit that you need government to do your thinking for you.


Quote:
Which you can only do so much of before it balloons. Remember unlike a government, an individual faces penalties if it balloons too much. If you can't pay your bills eventually you end up in court or out of your house and no car. The government isn't.
Why does the government not have to play by the same rules as the rest of us? Because they say so and try to intimidate others into allowing it. If you defy them, they are the ones who take from the people with no recourse. The government is the problem, not the solution. Get it?
 
Old 04-11-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,182 posts, read 33,593,322 times
Reputation: 14146
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
How does a 21 year old solve the problem of a $160,000 medical bill for cancer?

Make payments of $100 a month, for the rest of your life, or until times get better and income increases to be able to pay more, or pay it off.

Back in the day, My dad would take out a loan on the money he had in the bank(it still collected interest, and use the interest to make the loan payment. Today, with interest rates what they are, that is not possible.
 
Old 04-11-2015, 07:33 PM
 
77,982 posts, read 33,265,332 times
Reputation: 15590
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Make payments of $100 a month, for the rest of your life, or until times get better and income increases to be able to pay more, or pay it off.
Great solution. You won't come close to paying it off especially when they tack on interest. So they write it off and it still becomes socialized.

Quote:
Back in the day, My dad would take out a loan on the money he had in the bank(it still collected interest, and use the interest to make the loan payment. Today, with interest rates what they are, that is not possible.
Right.
 
Old 04-12-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,143 posts, read 15,682,515 times
Reputation: 9814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Speaking of denial, that must be where you reside. The government did not "give" rights to minorities, they acknowledged them after people fought for them and died for them. Then the government stepped in to take credit for what they were forced to do. Nice of you to admit that you need government to do your thinking for you.
The African-Americans really didn't "fight" to be non-slaves and have equal rights except in the southern states. The former slaves escaped most times by help of abolitionists from the North with the underground railroad. Slaves in war states were freed in 1863, others were freed in 1866. The 1940's through 60's, yes they actually did fight or but don't confuse the two time periods. Women, did truly fight for it. Don't try to re-write the history of pre-1860's American.
Quote:
Why does the government not have to play by the same rules as the rest of us? Because they say so and try to intimidate others into allowing it. If you defy them, they are the ones who take from the people with no recourse. The government is the problem, not the solution. Get it?
Government is the problem but the issue is the people aren't the solution. Look at the whole gay wedding issues with those who are "religious" and deny business to gays for example. Many people say let the market settle it but that don't always work. If there are no bakers friendly towards gays in your area, you are stuck and are these businesses truly religious or are they religious when they want to get away with discrimination? Yes, the Memphis bus boycotts and the lunch counter sit-ins DID work and a few of those who opposed the gay weddings have closed down but yet you have states trying to ensure the ability to discriminate due to religious conviction. The issue is your right to express religion ends when it discriminates against someone.
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