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Old 05-01-2015, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,720 posts, read 11,214,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The Slave States argued the exact opposite of what you're asserting:

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States.
Your point?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I think the documents coherently speak for themselves.
Yes and what the states said agree with me. As did Lincoln. It was about secession and preserving the Union.
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:52 AM
 
Location: *
8,096 posts, read 2,414,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Your point?
The point being the Slaver States asserted they had the Constitutional Right to own slaves. & the declaration of causes for seceding from the Union were because their rights to own people as property were being infringed.

Quote:
Yes and what the states said agree with me. As did Lincoln. It was about secession and preserving the Union.
I'm really not sure what you mean when you say what the States said (in the documents?) agree with you.

You agree the Slaver States had the right to own slaves?
You agree the non Slaver States had the right to not return slaves to Slaver States?
You agree with relinquishing Individual Rights to the Slaver States?
You agree the Slaver States had the right to secede from an oppressive Government?
You agree the Slaver States had the right to oppress & literally enslave their own people?
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:45 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,498 posts, read 33,783,099 times
Reputation: 14240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The point being the Slaver States asserted they had the Constitutional Right to own slaves. & the declaration of causes for seceding from the Union were because their rights to own people as property were being infringed.



I'm really not sure what you mean when you say what the States said (in the documents?) agree with you.

You agree the Slaver States had the right to own slaves?
You agree the non Slaver States had the right to not return slaves to Slaver States?
You agree with relinquishing Individual Rights to the Slaver States?
You agree the Slaver States had the right to secede from an oppressive Government?
You agree the Slaver States had the right to oppress & literally enslave their own people?


I agree.... There should have never been a 3/5ths compromise.
We would have saved ourselves the civil war and we would have been 2 separate nations from the get go, until the south needed the northern states for support.

The 3/5ths compromise was a northern non-slave state idea, because they needed the wealth and agriculture of the Souths production machine, that was slavery.

The war of 1812, there would have been help from both nations, to fight off the British and that there may have well brought the two closer together. No one forced the northern states to end slavery, it was voted out by the people of those states. It would have evolved the same way in the South.



But what's all this have to do with Rand Paul???

Last edited by BentBow; 05-02-2015 at 11:53 AM..
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:10 PM
 
Location: *
8,096 posts, read 2,414,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
I agree.... There should have never been a 3/5ths compromise.
We would have saved ourselves the civil war and we would have been 2 separate nations from the get go, until the south needed the northern states for support.

The 3/5ths compromise was a northern non-slave state idea, because they needed the wealth and agriculture of the Souths production machine, that was slavery.

The war of 1812, there would have been help from both nations, to fight off the British and that there may have well brought the two closer together. No one forced the northern states to end slavery, it was voted out by the people of those states. It would have evolved the same way in the South.

But what's all this have to do with Rand Paul???
What this has to do with Rand Paul is that I think it's disconcerting there are folks in the present day who seem supportive of secession &/or the Confederacy. It's a slightly different take on the Lost Cause ideology. I don't think it's helpful.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:51 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,498 posts, read 33,783,099 times
Reputation: 14240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
What this has to do with Rand Paul is that I think it's disconcerting there are folks in the present day who seem supportive of secession &/or the Confederacy. It's a slightly different take on the Lost Cause ideology. I don't think it's helpful.

That was 150 + years ago. Well before Rand Paul.
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Old 05-02-2015, 02:18 PM
 
Location: *
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
That was 150 + years ago. Well before Rand Paul.
I think there are geographical, political & racial divisions in the present day, some over the American Civil War, that exist today. I don't think it's a good sign when the American people are not more united about one of the worst times in our history, even if it happened 150 years ago. It's problematic.
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Old 05-02-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,498 posts, read 33,783,099 times
Reputation: 14240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I think there are geographical, political & racial divisions in the present day, some over the American Civil War, that exist today. I don't think it's a good sign when the American people are not more united about one of the worst times in our history, even if it happened 150 years ago. It's problematic.

Rand Paul, is no Jefferson Davis.
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Old 05-02-2015, 03:42 PM
 
Location: *
8,096 posts, read 2,414,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Rand Paul, is no Jefferson Davis.
No, you're right, he's no Jefferson Davis. Although, he's no President Lincoln or Obama either. He compared himself to both in 2012 when asked about his lack of experience for a potential run at being the GOP nominee.
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Old 05-02-2015, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,312 posts, read 15,776,861 times
Reputation: 9864
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMama View Post
I wouldn't call it a flip-flop, merely a clarification. But hey, you're free to vote for anyone you think will be less of a hawk...
How is that not a flip-flop? Paul was virtually an isolationist saying the US shouldn't be world police but now wants to invade Iran for no reason other than possible nuclear capabilities. I don't mind hawks, I just don't like wondering which president we'll have in office.
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,720 posts, read 11,214,406 times
Reputation: 6150
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The point being the Slaver States asserted they had the Constitutional Right to own slaves. & the declaration of causes for seceding from the Union were because their rights to own people as property were being infringed.



I'm really not sure what you mean when you say what the States said (in the documents?) agree with you.
As far as their ability to secede.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
You agree the Slaver States had the right to own slaves?
You agree the non Slaver States had the right to not return slaves to Slaver States?
You agree with relinquishing Individual Rights to the Slaver States?
You agree the Slaver States had the right to oppress & literally enslave their own people?
I've already answered these
The answer is still the same. Of course not

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
You agree the Slaver States had the right to secede from an oppressive Government?
Yes
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