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View Poll Results: If These Are Your Options, Who Gets Your Vote?
Hillary Clinton 3 7.89%
Elizabeth Warren 6 15.79%
Joe Biden 1 2.63%
Martin O'Malley 2 5.26%
Jim Webb 2 5.26%
Andrew Cuomo 1 2.63%
Terry McAuliffe 0 0%
Amy Klobuchar 0 0%
Al Gore 1 2.63%
Martin Heinrich 0 0%
Lincoln Chafee 0 0%
Bernard Sanders 4 10.53%
John Kerry 2 5.26%
Michelle Obama 0 0%
I'll Chew My Arm Off Before Voting For Any of These 16 42.11%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-18-2015, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,729,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Thinking of her and her family, I wish she had not run.

Think about it. Her husband, redneck philanderer, but undeniable political genius, with Reaganesque charisma to boot, was elected twice.

I think it is very likely she will go from front runner to loser... twice. Ouch! I would not want to be around the dinner table when that came up...

She is a smart woman who could do great things in just about any field, but I think all she will get from this presidential run is humiliation.

Most people just don't like her much. Full stop.
Agreed on all counts. I do think she's been hell-bent on becoming POTUS since well before Bill Clinton even announced his campaign to run for president. She's laser-beam focused on that goal for such a long time, it makes it awfully hard to sell Americans on "I'm doing this to help America." I'm sure she means well, but the overwhelming perception is that she's just in it for herself.

Still, it's quite amusing watching the GOP losing their damn minds desperately trying to demonize the lady. Unfortunately, many Democrat strategists have taken it all as, "Lookie! They're scared of Hillary! We must be right to nominate her!"
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Old 04-18-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Utah
546 posts, read 408,340 times
Reputation: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Fitting Mia Love into the equation anywhere just tickles me I guess. A black, Mormon, woman Republican candidate. That's just awesome! Shatters so many false stereotypes in a single stroke and I just love the irony of it! I'd love it if somebody could talk Condoleezza Rice into running, but I think we all know she won't. Part of me would just love to see the GOP run a black woman against Hillary, just for the sake of novelty candidate one-upmanship.

I don't know a great deal about Susana Martinez. If she's well spoken and nothing like Sara Palin's airheadedness, that would be a great option. Apparently she used to be a Democrat until 1995 and an ugly falling out with her boss.
I liked her RNC speech.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0yuSTVARc
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,729,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMama View Post
Seems like a good choice, though I'd hate to base my opinion off of a single speech. A Rubio/Martinez ticket could do well I think.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,526 posts, read 3,049,410 times
Reputation: 4343
The Democratic Party has nothing to do with the political left. Essentially, The Democrats are a centrist party, while The Republicans are a right-of-center party. Both parties are avidly and unapologetically capitalist. While an occasional progressive (i.e. Kucinich or Warren) may achieve some influence at the grass roots level, The Democratic Party's real power structure will ensure that they remain symbolic at best. Bernie Sanders, of course, is not a member of The Democratic Party.

For those of us who actually are on the political left, every presidential election brings about a nauseating set of options: vote for a third party (or write-in) candidate, abstain from the process, or fall into the "lesser of two evils" trap.

A third party candidate may well represent our ideological goals. However, the electoral system is structured to ensure that the capitalist-supported duopoly of Republican/Democratic Parties will always yield the winner. Thus, this course of action becomes nothing more than a feel-good choice which is incapable of promoting any of the changes we may seek. One might even be blamed for a Republican victory, as were Nader voters in 2000.

Making the conscious choice to refrain from participating (my personal choice) will result in many people suggesting that you've given up your right to have an opinion ("you didn't vote, you can't complain!"), even as others will blame you for the victory of The Republican Party candidate, via your non-vote for The Democratic candidate.

The 'lesser of two evils" argument is perhaps the most insidious choice of the lot. It suggests that you should actively support a candidate based upon the theoretical assumption that this candidate will somehow do marginally less damage than another candidate--even though you know very well that both candidates have historically done the bidding of the same corporate masters.

As to Hillary Clinton's campaign, she has only two core groups of supporters: Democratic Party insiders, and a segment of the feminist community which is willing to overlook her numerous character and political flaws in order to experience the symbolism of a female president.

I know a lot of people who drank the Obama kool-aid, only to realize that Obama maintained--even expanded upon--Bush's imperialism, militarism, Wall Street brown-nosing, and domestic surveillance atrocities. Clinton is even further to the political right than is Obama. I certainly hope that progressives will not buy into this BS again.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,729,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogead View Post
The Democratic Party has nothing to do with the political left. Essentially, The Democrats are a centrist party, while The Republicans are a right-of-center party. Both parties are avidly and unapologetically capitalist. While an occasional progressive (i.e. Kucinich or Warren) may achieve some influence at the grass roots level, The Democratic Party's real power structure will ensure that they remain symbolic at best. Bernie Sanders, of course, is not a member of The Democratic Party.

For those of us who actually are on the political left, every presidential election brings about a nauseating set of options: vote for a third party (or write-in) candidate, abstain from the process, or fall into the "lesser of two evils" trap.

A third party candidate may well represent our ideological goals. However, the electoral system is structured to ensure that the capitalist-supported duopoly of Republican/Democratic Parties will always yield the winner. Thus, this course of action becomes nothing more than a feel-good choice which is incapable of promoting any of the changes we may seek. One might even be blamed for a Republican victory, as were Nader voters in 2000.

Making the conscious choice to refrain from participating (my personal choice) will result in many people suggesting that you've given up your right to have an opinion ("you didn't vote, you can't complain!"), even as others will blame you for the victory of The Republican Party candidate, via your non-vote for The Democratic candidate.

The 'lesser of two evils" argument is perhaps the most insidious choice of the lot. It suggests that you should actively support a candidate based upon the theoretical assumption that this candidate will somehow do marginally less damage than another candidate--even though you know very well that both candidates have historically done the bidding of the same corporate masters.

As to Hillary Clinton's campaign, she has only two core groups of supporters: Democratic Party insiders, and a segment of the feminist community which is willing to overlook her numerous character and political flaws in order to experience the symbolism of a female president.

I know a lot of people who drank the Obama kool-aid, only to realize that Obama maintained--even expanded upon--Bush's imperialism, militarism, Wall Street brown-nosing, and domestic surveillance atrocities. Clinton is even further to the political right than is Obama. I certainly hope that progressives will not buy into this BS again.
To the bolded part, the answer is automatic runoffs. Any candidate failing to get a majority vote must be subject to an automatic runoff between the two candidates who got the most votes. The beautiful part is that automatic runoffs for every type of election can be instituted at the local and state levels. No need to ask the US Congress for permission or anything like that. With automatic runoffs, a person voting for Perot doesn't get blamed for helping Clinton win and a vote for Nader wouldn't be blamed for Gore losing.

It is absolute idiocy to think that two political parties can adequately represent the incredibly diverse range of opinions of the American people. It's weird that the two-party system has survived this long.
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,729,827 times
Reputation: 6593
Interesting. Elizabeth Warren's in the lead. Not sure how much a poll here truly means but seems like somebody ought to tell her to seriously consider running.
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:36 PM
 
8,017 posts, read 5,853,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Remember last election? Remember how the biggest question in the GOP was, "Can we find anyone other than Mitt Romney? Please??" Welcome to history repeating itself, but this time on the Democrat side of things.

A simple Google search turns fun things like these in decidedly liberal media outlets:
In an MSNBC poll, 87% of Americans do not plan on voting for Hillary.
New Yorker Article: The Coming Hillary Clinton Train Wreck

Americans on both sides of the aisle are already grumbling in disgust against another Bush or another Clinton POTUS. A Jeb Bush vs Hillary Clinton national election might just drive election turnout to all-time lows.

But the rhetoric coming from the Left sounds awfully familiar. "There just isn't anyone else that stands any chance of winning the national election." Sound familiar? That's exactly what we heard about Mitt all through the 2012 election cycle.

Will a good alternative to Hillary please stand up? Please???

I don't think the DNC has any interest in a good alternative to Hillary standing up....but we'll see.

However, I cannot imagine a worse situation for this country than the two "choices" for president being Clinton or Bush.
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,709,844 times
Reputation: 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Interesting. Elizabeth Warren's in the lead. Not sure how much a poll here truly means but seems like somebody ought to tell her to seriously consider running.
Yes, knowing she has 26% of the vote on a city data poll would be a compelling argument for running for president.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:19 PM
 
232 posts, read 237,389 times
Reputation: 114
Sanders.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:33 PM
 
14,009 posts, read 14,995,436 times
Reputation: 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Yes, knowing she has 26% of the vote on a city data poll would be a compelling argument for running for president.
How about 23% in New Hampshire
RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - New Hampshire Democratic Presidential Primary
and with a definite upward Trend with Warren, and Down for Clinton.
As well as the latest poll being 46% picking not Clinton to 45% Clinton, she is not invincible.
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