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1) Puerto Ricans are U.S. CITIZENS since Puerto Rico is a U.S. TERRITORY for over a century and they dislike illegal immigration and amnesty since they have to deal with it with the Dominicans in Puerto Rico.
2) Cubans usually vote Republican.
3) Most Latinos vote democrat for different reasons and amnesty is not on top of their list. It has to do more of the government handouts and welfare.
we tried amnesty in 1986 and it didn't work, what makes you think it will work at a larger scale this time?
Never said that Puerto Ricans or Cuban-Americans aren't citizens of this country. In fact I said they are probably the Hispanic groups that mostly oppose amnesty. It is those Hispanic citizens of Latino roots that are advocating for it. I already posted a couple of links proving that amnesty is at the top of their list and one of the reasons they vote Democrat.
No, OldGLory, I'm not kidding. You are getting played if you think any pol will do anything that will radically differ from either Reform with a pathway to citizenship or the status quo where the 11 mill live and work here anyway. Recognizing that is not caving, but simply, being a realist with his/her feet planet on this planet. It is insuring one is unwilling to be duped by harsh talking pols who would need depends if they actually had a true chance to do anything similar to their rhetoric.
OLdGlory"As I said, if they left instead Americans would get their jobs back."
Not necessarily. If Americans tried to extort unrealistic wages, the same jobs illegals do manually would be automated. That has already happened in many industries, and it occurs when the ROI merits doing so, and we know how to automate said task.
Now if Americans will pick lettuce for a tiny wage.........
No, OldGLory, I'm not kidding. You are getting played if you think any pol will do anything that will radically differ from either Reform with a pathway to citizenship or the status quo where the 11 mill live and work here anyway. Recognizing that is not caving, but simply, being a realist with his/her feet planet on this planet. It is insuring one is unwilling to be duped by harsh talking pols who would need depends if they actually had a true chance to do anything similar to their rhetoric.
That may be true but why be in agreement with their anti-American views? You apparently agreed with them on amnesty in the first place. It's more than being a realist with you it's advocacy based on an agenda and you know it. You just don't want to admit it though so you just play the "realist" card.
I agree with other pols who recognize this and work on Reform with both a pathway to citizenship and tightened border control, versus the NJob pols who talk tough , recklessly, as they know their talk is always just going to be talk.
Reform with a pathway with tighter security is a solution. Talk, tough as it may be, in and of itself, is cowardly and cheap.
Now the reality is, the one thing that would truly help stop illegals from getting hired, would be a corporate death penalty for multi-incident offenders (employers who hire illegals 3 times, in my opinion, should see their business dissolved, assets seized, and every officer should be banned from ever owning a corp again or being an officer).
OLdGlory"As I said, if they left instead Americans would get their jobs back."
Not necessarily. If Americans tried to extort unrealistic wages, the same jobs illegals do manually would be automated. That has already happened in many industries, and it occurs when the ROI merits doing so, and we know how to automate said task.
Now if Americans will pick lettuce for a tiny wage.........
What makes you think Americans would demand unrealistic wages or even get them? You're grasping at straws now. Were Americans making unrealistic wages before the arrival of cheap, illegal labor? No, they were getting paid a fair wage for the job. There are many blue-collared jobs that can't be automated for the most part like construction and landscaping of which illegals have flooded those industries.
Oh, stop with the crop picking argument! Only 4% of illegals are picking crops and there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign crop pickers. Of course most Americans won't pick crops for a living and there are many reasons that they won't none of which is based on laziness. Why should Americans do any job at a "tiny wage" just to compete with illegal aliens? Bob, you really need to examine your conscience on this issue if you have one.
Americans never picked lettuce, en masse, OldGlory. But perhaps they should as there are many unemployed, and that job would be better than nothing for those w/o advanced skills. Yes, if they would not do it in such circumstances, that would be laziness.
But sometimes Americans extorted, $73 at GM with benefits was extortion, and today, Mr. Robot has the majority of the manhours in auto mfg. That is why manhours per car improved so much; they do not count robot hours in manhour calculations. I toured several at different intervals, and was very impressed with their progress in utilizing technology to solve cost control problems, and yes, that is why corps add robots. Cost control.
The UAW only agreed to Tier 2 when the D3 were near their death bed, shortly before acting like beggars on Capitol Hill.
Last edited by BobNJ1960; 04-27-2015 at 09:05 AM..
This might be a little off-topic, but does anyone believe that e-verify could ever be made accurate enough to stop illegals from gaining employment on the front end? I think those that do are putting their hopes on vapor ware; i.e. technology that doesn't exist. Maybe there could be a system to flag SSN's that are simultaneously being used in different parts of the country, or SSN accounts with a ridiculous number of job attachments, bot I don't see how any system developed is not going to suceptable to being gamed by a skilled con. It could catch some of the most egregious cases, but I don't think it would solve the problem.
It's sort of amusing to think that some of the same people that think the government can't do anything right think that a government run computer check can fix the problem.
This might be a little off-topic, but does anyone believe that e-verify could ever be made accurate enough to stop illegals from gaining employment on the front end? I think those that do are putting their hopes on vapor ware; i.e. technology that doesn't exist. Maybe there could be a system to flag SSN's that are simultaneously being used in different parts of the country, or SSN accounts with a ridiculous number of job attachments, bot I don't see how any system developed is not going to suceptable to being gamed by a skilled con. It could catch some of the most egregious cases, but I don't think it would solve the problem.
It's sort of amusing to think that some of the same people that think the government can't do anything right think that a government run computer check can fix the problem.
E-verify is a joke, all it does is confirm that the name and SSN match what is in the government's database. Any immigrant caught by that system was not going to last long living in the shadows. Most of them know someone with a legit SSN and they use the same number for several people at a time. Amateurs use information obtained from identity thieves, but that is for suckers as the government will contact you eventually when the real owner of the number complains. The best plan is to find a citizen with a Latino name that does not work, like a stay at home parent or retiree.
I agree with other pols who recognize this and work on Reform with both a pathway to citizenship and tightened border control, versus the NJob pols who talk tough , recklessly, as they know their talk is always just going to be talk.
Reform with a pathway with tighter security is a solution. Talk, tough as it may be, in and of itself, is cowardly and cheap.
Now the reality is, the one thing that would truly help stop illegals from getting hired, would be a corporate death penalty for multi-incident offenders (employers who hire illegals 3 times, in my opinion, should see their business dissolved, assets seized, and every officer should be banned from ever owning a corp again or being an officer).
So your position is still that giving millions of illegal aliens amnesty (not reform) and a path to citizenship is better than doing nothing? How do you justify that? At least if the status quo remains we can take steps to get rid of them. I suggest you stop using the PC term of reform because nothing is being reformed. Tighter security? Are you really this naïve? We were promised that with the 1986 amnesty and it didn't happen. Now we have at least quadruple the number of illegal aliens here. We can't just continue to offer amnesty and citizenship as the solution. When does it end? Or don't you want it to? Perhaps you are one of the opinion that the more Mexicans we have here the merrier? You did say you are Hispanic, right?
I have no problem with going after the employers. That should definitely be a part of the solution. Benefits and birthright citizenship draws them here also. What you fail to realize is that the illegals themselves are equally guilty so they should be sought after and deported as our laws state not rewarded instead. Why just punish the employers but not them?
Amnesty aka reform is no solution for the American people. Shouldn't the solution be something that benefits them rather than harms them? We need the jobs they are holding so how is allowing them to remain here going to return those jobs to Americans and bring wages back up to where they once were? If you refuse to answer my questions it is a tell all on your part and I will have to ignore your posts just as I have in the past. Why won't you answer my questions if you are so secure in your position? Again, examine your conscience bob as to why you are picking illegal foreigners over our own citizen's needs and rights.
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