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Old 05-06-2015, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,367 posts, read 15,801,153 times
Reputation: 9889

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
That's what some are attempting via Rand Paul, and honestly I think that moving in this direction is their best chance at remaining viable on a national level.

That said, they still won't get MY vote. I don't cotton to wealth-worshiping boot-lickers. Moreover, Rand is a HIGHLY flawed candidate. He's an unapologetic racist- his pro-segregation views are on Youtube for all to see. A significant subset of Republicans are hoping for a political re-alignment pushing the Republican Party in a libertarian direction. And in time that may happen- I'd consider it a marginal improvement. But it won't be in 2016. And it won't happen with Rand as the leader.
Yeah. I think the libertarians may just make the Republican Party a new Libertarian party in time if the nation gives up on the Republicans in 2016 and 2020 whether it is conservative or moderate backing.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:31 PM
 
18,895 posts, read 7,356,703 times
Reputation: 8074
I Like Spam"Sort of pointless to spend a lot of money on a campaign, just to lose, wouldn't you say?"

Not if you are moving, long-term, into viability for POTUS.

If you are moving towards appealing to 19th century America, it is a waste of money.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:32 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,574 posts, read 33,842,948 times
Reputation: 14277
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
It would be a long-term process. Start with passing Comprehensive Immigration Reform with a pathway to citizenship and stronger border control concurrently, and support DOJ investigations of killings of civilians by cops.

It will take several cycles (POTUS) from whenever the GOP stops alienating non-whites for a message to be believed and even then, only if action occurs to support the message. But until those actions start, the GOP is just digging itself a deeper hole in regards to viability to elect a POTUS.

Screw that! Go after those employing the tourist with a vengeance, with seizure of assets and we would not spend a dime to deport anyone. They will all leave on their own.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:38 PM
 
Location: in the soup
3,894 posts, read 1,645,447 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
Maybe Dr. Paul isn't a candidate for you, what Republican could get your vote, and millions of others like you?


If they can't change and actually vanquish the Democrats, why should they bother at all?

Sort of pointless to spend a lot of money on a campaign, just to lose, wouldn't you say?

Might as well just close up shop, or at least withdraw from electoral politics until the people show they are ready for change.
It's a good question, and I'm happy for you that you've finally got a chance to ask it

At this point, I'm pretty sure there's NOTHING Republicans can do to get my vote. And that's true for tens of millions of people out there.

I don't have any easy answers for the GOP. They chose to side with white racists and billionaires- and it worked for them for DECADES. But times are changing and people are no longer buying what Repugs are selling. Republicans made their own bed, and now they gotta lie in it.

I can see roughly three options for the GOP:

a)They can double-down on the hate, racism, and legalized discrimination. This is what they're doing on a state level, and it's working in the short-term.

b)They can try dropping the social issues where national politics are concerned, and move in a more Libertarian direction. In THEORY this might work. But in practice (1) people remember the nasty, racist, xenophobic **** they do on a state level and (2) Rand Paul is a transparent, pandering hypocrite. They MIGHT make it work at some point, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that it doesn't happen in 2016.

c)They can recognize that it's counterproductive in the long-term to behave like a bunch of troglodyte fascists, and treat minorities and women like human beings for a change. In the LONG term that's what they'll have to do. But in the SHORT term, their racist base will stay home and they'll lose in epic proportions.



So yeah, the easy-answer jar is all empty. I dunno what ya'll can do at this point except double-down, obstruct, and hope for some kind of social change that NO EVIDENC WHATSOEVER supports at this point. Frankly that's what I expect- denial, double-down-crazy, economic sabotage, and hate-mongering. Basically more of the same.

Or was that a rhetorical question?
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,428,892 times
Reputation: 3483
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post

b)They can try dropping the social issues where national politics are concerned, and move in a more Libertarian direction. In THEORY this might work. But in practice (1) people remember the nasty, racist, xenophobic **** they do on a state level and (2) Rand Paul is a transparent, pandering hypocrite. They MIGHT make it work at some point, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that it doesn't happen in 2016.

c)They can recognize that it's counterproductive in the long-term to behave like a bunch of troglodyte fascists, and treat minorities and women like human beings for a change. In the LONG term that's what they'll have to do. But in the SHORT term, their racist base will stay home and they'll lose in epic proportions.


If there is no way to win in 2016, it makes little sense to spend any money on a campaign in 2016.

If it "might" work at "some point", it would seem to be a lot wiser just to stand down if and until that point is reached- or the people are ready for change from the hard left and progressive attitudes of the Democrats. That day might never come during our lifetimes, but if you can't change it, roll with it.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,367 posts, read 15,801,153 times
Reputation: 9889
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
It's a good question, and I'm happy for you that you've finally got a chance to ask it

At this point, I'm pretty sure there's NOTHING Republicans can do to get my vote. And that's true for tens of millions of people out there.

I don't have any easy answers for the GOP. They chose to side with white racists and billionaires- and it worked for them for DECADES. But times are changing and people are no longer buying what Repugs are selling. Republicans made their own bed, and now they gotta lie in it.

I can see roughly three options for the GOP:

a)They can double-down on the hate, racism, and legalized discrimination. This is what they're doing on a state level, and it's working in the short-term.

b)They can try dropping the social issues where national politics are concerned, and move in a more Libertarian direction. In THEORY this might work. But in practice (1) people remember the nasty, racist, xenophobic **** they do on a state level and (2) Rand Paul is a transparent, pandering hypocrite. They MIGHT make it work at some point, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that it doesn't happen in 2016.

c)They can recognize that it's counterproductive in the long-term to behave like a bunch of troglodyte fascists, and treat minorities and women like human beings for a change. In the LONG term that's what they'll have to do. But in the SHORT term, their racist base will stay home and they'll lose in epic proportions.



So yeah, the easy-answer jar is all empty. I dunno what ya'll can do at this point except double-down, obstruct, and hope for some kind of social change that NO EVIDENC WHATSOEVER supports at this point. Frankly that's what I expect- denial, double-down-crazy, economic sabotage, and hate-mongering. Basically more of the same.

Or was that a rhetorical question?
By decades you mean 68-08 right? They won in '68, '72, '80, '84, '88, '00 & '04. They lost in '60, '64, '76, '92, '96, '08 & '12. '16 isn't looking too great for them. Listen I am not a Paul bot but I'll still take him over Cruz, Carson, Firiono and even Clinton in a heartbeat. I'd likely vote Bush or Sanders myself though...
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Old 05-06-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: in the soup
3,894 posts, read 1,645,447 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
If there is no way to win in 2016, it makes little sense to spend any money on a campaign in 2016.

If it "might" work at "some point", it would seem to be a lot wiser just to stand down if and until that point is reached- or the people are ready for change from the hard left and progressive attitudes of the Democrats. That day might never come during our lifetimes, but if you can't change it, roll with it.
I dunno what to tell you. Like I said, there are no easy answers when painted into a corner.

Republicans will put forth a valiant effort in 2016. The Kochs (among other oligarchs) will put hundreds of millions if not BILLIONS into the campaign, trying to buy the election. And the Republican Party will go through the motions even if they KNOW it's a lost cause- just to keep their donor base and political machinery active if nothing else. They're keeping the machine running, hoping for better days to come.

Problem for them is that there is ZERO evidence out there suggesting that things will improve for Republicans. Every single demographic trend is against them right now- and no sign of slowing. They're barreling full-speed toward a reckoning of 'change and mean it... or become irrelevant'.
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Old 05-07-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
29,357 posts, read 39,793,769 times
Reputation: 18802
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
If you were advising the Republicans on how to reach out to African Americans or hispanics, what would you suggest they say in order to sweep through those constituencies like a knife through hot butter next fall?
Republicans don't need to win African Americans and Hispanics. They just need to keep them home. Both are politically apathetic to begin with, so it is not a tall order. Whether Clinton can get them to the polls is a very big question in my mind. If she can't, and the Republicans nominate Bush who will do well with the INDs and the REPs, they may be sitting in the White House in '17.
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:09 AM
 
2,538 posts, read 1,133,376 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Why would/should any GOP candidate have to worry about changing demographics due to illegal immigration? Aren't all of our citizens supposed to respect our immigration laws regardless of race or ethnicity?
Some people think that Mexican and San Salvadoran citizens should be deciding our elections for us. These people are insane.
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:11 AM
 
2,538 posts, read 1,133,376 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Well, after hearing that Jeb Bush gave a speech to the Evangelical Hispanic Convention, promising a permanent place for all 11 million illegal immigrants and did it in Spanish, no less, Hillary came out yesterday and said she will propose full and immediate amnesty for all those same 11 million people. Bet that get's up your nose, Mr. Glory.
It's what the large percentage of Americans want and both candidates will try to outdo each other come 2016, when it comes to the immigration issue.
I think you guys are finito', as they say in Mexico City.

Hillary Clinton Goes Big On Immigration

Hillary Clinton vowed on Tuesday that she would not only support immigration reform and protect deportation relief policies put forward by President Barack Obama. If elected president next year, she would expand them.
"If Congress continues to refuse to act, as president I would do everything possible under the law to go even further," the 2016 Democratic candidate said at an event with young undocumented immigrants, held at Las Vegas' Rancho High School.
Then why didn't they come out to vote for Democrats last November, to show their support for this issue? I've seen zero evidence that this is a winning election issue. Zero. Hopefully this turns some people against Hillary.
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