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Old 05-12-2015, 07:44 AM
 
13,302 posts, read 7,867,411 times
Reputation: 2144

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
First of all, I've been basically a libertarian when it comes to social issues for decades - pretty much since I could vote. Just wanted to make that clear.

Secondly, I can't help but notice that you are very quick to resort to personal insults - the refuge of those who really are short on actual points.

And finally, I have my own personal opinions, based on personal experience as well as simply long term (53 years) observation, when it comes to marriage vows, and the abuse of those vows. I don't think it's morally superior for anyone - male or female - to "stand by their spouse" when that spouse is abusive, or predatory, or engages in multiple (and even worse - very public) affairs. I don't care if they are a republican, a democrat, or a Tibetan. Generally speaking, I don't think that sort of behavior should be enabled by a spouse.
"Breaching has its privileges."- Hillary
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:46 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,726,226 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Know why, because you are judgmental. Meaning she is absolutely correct. True, you believe slamming a woman because she stuck by her husband, even after he messed up many times, and that it is a sign that her character is lacking in some way, many others would commend her for putting forth some effort to save her marriage, strange how the tune of Cons changes when it fits their agenda.

My guess is that you are like many other Cons that were hoping like crazy that his actions would result in them getting divorced, and since that did not pan out and now you have tried to actually turn that against her, talk about a lame argument and is hypocritical at best. This is what you get when you attack someone for doing what your side preaches is the right thing to do, maybe next time you will give it more thought when you come up with a "brilliant" idea on how to attack your opponents, or maybe you won't
You said "stuck with her husband" Oh the victim card. LOL, there you got it... Hillary's got tons of money and they view Hillary as a victim.

po, po Hillary... Let's have a pity party and hand her the presidency because the left views her as a "victim".
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,892 posts, read 30,262,451 times
Reputation: 19087
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Vince Foster didn't take his life over Whitewater. He took his life because he suffered from depression, the depression medication he was prescribed was too low a dosage to deal with his illness, he hated politics, he hated Washington, he was separated from his family/support system, and he felt that his job performance was bad.

YOU have no evidence of anything otherwise.
and neither do you.....

I'm sorry, but your so wrong....

you need to read....what was he depressed about?????

I'm done, there is no way your going to believe...regardless of what anyone tells you....
vote for the old witch.....

your an uninformed voter.....
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:57 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,870,989 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
and neither do you.....

I'm sorry, but your so wrong....

you need to read....what was he depressed about?????

I'm done, there is no way your going to believe...regardless of what anyone tells you....
vote for the old witch.....

your an uninformed voter.....
Better informed than you, though.

Actually,I have evidence.

First, he got a prescription for depression medication the day before he killed himself.

Second, his wife has publicly stated that he was depressed, and had spoken to her about how much he missed his family (who had stayed in Arkansas so that their youngest son could complete high school), how much he hated Washington, how much he hated politics, how distressed he was by the Wall Street Journal articles about him, how he hated being a public figure, and so on.

Third, the letter in his briefcase that was found with him and was torn to pieces was essentially a draft of a resignation letter, in which he outlined how he thought his job performance was failing, and how he didn't like politics and the way DC worked in tearing apart people's lives.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:00 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,870,989 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
You said "stuck with her husband" Oh the victim card. LOL, there you got it... Hillary's got tons of money and they view Hillary as a victim.

po, po Hillary... Let's have a pity party and hand her the presidency because the left views her as a "victim".
Since when is a woman choosing to stay with her husband playing the victim card? Women aren't victims when they are freely making choices regarding their own lives.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,933,215 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
You said "stuck with her husband" Oh the victim card. LOL, there you got it... Hillary's got tons of money and they view Hillary as a victim.

po, po Hillary... Let's have a pity party and hand her the presidency because the left views her as a "victim".
I never said she was a victim, that would be you. Practicing your routine for when she is sitting in the Oval Office?
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,892 posts, read 30,262,451 times
Reputation: 19087
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Better informed than you, though.

Actually,I have evidence.

First, he got a prescription for depression medication the day before he killed himself.

Second, his wife has publicly stated that he was depressed, and had spoken to her about how much he missed his family (who had stayed in Arkansas so that their youngest son could complete high school), how much he hated Washington, how much he hated politics, how distressed he was by the Wall Street Journal articles about him, how he hated being a public figure, and so on.

Third, the letter in his briefcase that was found with him and was torn to pieces was essentially a draft of a resignation letter, in which he outlined how he thought his job performance was failing, and how he didn't like politics and the way DC worked in tearing apart people's lives.
yeah and you got that all off the internet...

Why did he kill himself, because he was depressed, depressed about what?
A homicide investigation was never launched

1. The man who discovered the body in Ft. Marcy Park says he was curious about the cause of death and looked closely for a gun. He emphatically says there was no gun in either hand. The FBI put great pressure on this witness to change his testimony. Why? Did he interrupt the staging of a suicide that was only completed after he had left the scene?

2. The powder-burn patterns found on both Foster's hands apparently came from powder discharged from the front of a gun cylinder. If he had been gripping the handle, his hands would have had stain patterns consistent with powder discharged from the rear of the cylinder.

3. The gun was still in Foster's hand. It is unusual for a .38 caliber weapon to remain in a person's hand after discharge. Propelled by its powerful recoil, a .38 normally is thrown a considerable distance, sometimes as much as 15 feet. It is true a spasmodic reflex sometimes freezes the fingers around the gun; however, when the gun was removed from Foster's hand, his fingers were still flexible, indicating such a reflex never took place.

4. There was no blood or tissue on the gun. Normally, the force of such a powerful explosion within the mouth blows back a large amount of blood and tissue.

5. No fingerprints were found on the exterior of the gun. The FBI claims this was due to a lack of sweat on Foster's hands. Consider that the temperature that afternoon passed 95 degrees, and the temperature-humidity index reached 103 (this estimates the effect of temperature and moisture on humans, with 65 considered the highest comfortable level). Furthermore, a man about to fire a gun in his mouth is likely to be sweating excessively. If the FBI explanation is scientifically true, one has to conclude it is exceedingly rare to find prints on any weapon.

6. The FBI lab found two fingerprints underneath the removable hand grips. These prints did not belong to Foster. No effort was made to identify these prints through the FBI's computerized data bank. (The FBI did try to find samples of prints belonging to Foster's father.)

7. The gun was made up of parts from at least two guns. Consider that professional killers often use guns made from several guns to make them untraceable. These are known as "drop guns."

8. There is no evidence this gun belonged to Foster. Nor is there any evidence this gun fired the fatal shot.

9. When Lisa Foster went to look for her husband's silver gun in its normal place, she found a strange gun. No member of the Foster family recognized this gun. Did somebody make a swap? If so, who made the exchange? And for what purpose?

10. The gun in Foster's hand, as shown in an ABC color photo, is clearly black. Members of Foster's family all agree Foster's gun was silver. The FBI showed Foster's widow a silver gun and told her it was the gun found at the scene. Why did the FBI make this substitution?

11. It remains clouded as to what happened to Foster's silver gun. We know it could not have been the black gun found in Foster's hand. Was it the silver gun the FBI showed to Lisa Foster? Does the FBI have any proof this gun belonged to Foster? Is it possible the black gun in the ABC photo was merely a "place-holder" gun planted in Foster's hand until Foster's own gun could be retrieved?

12. No matching bullets for the crime-scene gun were found on Foster or at his home. The only bullets found in his home were .22 caliber. This suggests Foster's silver gun was a .22, not a .38. FBI reports do not identify the caliber of the silver handgun in their possession. Why not?

13. The gun contained two cartridges, one spent and one unspent. They were stamped with a code indicating they were high velocity (extra powerful) rounds. This is inconsistent with the fact there was no pool of blood or large exit wound.

14. The rush to deliver a suicide verdict repeatedly corrupted normal police procedures. The gun was an 80-year-old Army Colt Special. Despite the age of the gun, the Park Police did not test it to see if it would actually fire. Six days after the investigation was closed, they asked the BATF to test the gun. The test results were announced five days later, or a total of 11 days after the case had already been closed.

15. Medical technician Richard Arthur was one of the first to reach the death scene. Arthur emphatically says he saw an automatic pistol in Foster's hand. His description of the weapon is very precise and correctly matches the profile of an automatic. He adamantly swears it had a barrel with straight lines as opposed to a tubular shape and a hand grip that was "square in shape." If his testimony is correct, it suggests an automatic was replaced with a revolver sometime after the
police arrived.

16. Gun powder residue on Foster's glasses and clothing did not come from the gun found in his hand.

17. Foster's glasses were found 19 feet from his head at the bottom of the embankment his body was found on. The Park Police have theorized that his glasses "jumped" to the bottom of the slope when the gun went off. High underbrush covered most of the slope. The police explanation suggests his glasses were propelled through 19 feet of this dense growth. Consider that his head would have been slammed backward against the embankment as his glasses flew toward the ditch. What force could have thrust his glasses 19 feet in the opposite direction? No tests were conducted to test this implausible theory. An earlier theory was that he threw his glasses into the ravine prior to killing himself. The presence of gun powder on his glasses refuted this odd explanation.

18. Five homes are located an average of 490 feet from the crime scene, yet nobody in the neighborhood heard a shot. The residence of the Saudi Arabia ambassador is 700 feet from the crime scene. Guards at the residence heard no shot. Presumably the sound of a shot would greatly alarm trained bodyguards. This anomaly is neatly accounted for if (1) a silencer was used, or (2) Foster was shot at another location.

19. The Saudi bodyguards and the neighbors living near the crime scene were not interviewed until months later. This was a gross disregard of police procedure. Evidence trails grow cold quickly, memories fade, people move, and witnesses become recalcitrant.

20. Authorities claim the bullet exited the rear of Foster's skull. This bullet has never been found. Why not? A bullet smashing through a skull loses most of its force and rarely travels far. Is it because the bullet never exited the rear of Foster's skull? Bear in mind there is substantial eyewitness testimony indicating no such exit wound existed.

21. Several people who were at the crime scene say there was little or no blood under Foster's head. A .38 caliber weapon firing a high-velocity slug normally makes a large exit hole and produces a huge pool of blood. Following a fatal shot to the brain, the heart keeps pumping until it runs out of blood. This action can last as long as two minutes, thusly expelling a massive quantity of blood. The lack of blood raises two questions: (1) Did Foster die elsewhere? (2) Was the shot to the head administered after he was dead? A careful consideration of these possibilities was precluded by the frantic rush to support an official suicide verdict.

22. X-rays of Foster's skull have either vanished or never were taken. Dr. James Beyer, who did the autopsy, has made contradictory statements as to whether he took X-rays. This controversy remains unresolved.

23. Foster's head was moved after his death and before crime-scene photos were taken. Was this done intentionally? Or was it merely the product of an inept crime-scene investigation? The FBI report indicates the head was moved while the blood was still wet. This claim is intriguing because it suggests the head was moved before investigators arrived.

24. In his written report, paramedic Corey Ashford listed the death as a homicide. Did he do this because he thought it was obviously a homicide? Or was he only following proper police procedure by initially treating a violent death as a homicide?

25. Only a few trickles of dried blood were found on Foster's face.One of these trickles had run uphill in defiance of gravity. This fact alone should have alerted the Park Police to the possibility Foster's body had been moved from another location or the body had been tampered with after death.

26. The Army Colt .38 Special has a high sight and a bulky ejector-rod head. These items normally do significant damage to the teeth and mouth when the gun barrel is explosively expelled from the mouth. Foster's teeth were not chipped, nor was his mouth damaged. The good condition of his mouth has never been explained by the FBI or Park Police. Is it possible a silencer was used? Consider that a silencer is a smooth, round extension that has no sight or ejector rod.

27. No blow-back of blood or tissue was found on the gun, on Foster's hand, or on his sleeve. Most homicide experts believe this is physically impossible given the power of the Colt .38. How does one account for this discrepancy? A much-discussed theory is that Foster was killed with a .22 caliber pistol. Consider that this small weapon is a favorite of professional killers. There are four good reasons for this: (1) it makes far less noise than a larger weapon; (2) rather than blasting through a person's head, its less powerful bullet tends to ricochet within the skull, doing lethal brain damage; (3) it does this deadly work without generating a blowout of the brain case, a pool of blood, or splattered brain parts; (4) there is almost no blow-back of atomized blood droplets to mark the assassin's clothing with DNA.

28. No skull fragments were found at the scene, even though a .38 fired into the mouth normally inflicts severe damage as the slug blows out the back of the brain case. Park Police officer John Rolla observed, "There was no blowout. There weren't brains running all over the place. . . I initially thought the bullet might still be in his head." This is consistent with the theory a .22 was used to kill Foster. Why have Rolla's observations been ignored?

29. All the paramedics who handled Foster's body said they did not see an exit wound in Foster's head. Corey Ashford helped lift Foster's body into a body bag. While doing so, he cradled Foster's head against his stomach. Ashford's white shirt remained immaculate following this contact. Nor did he have to wash his hands. He says this is highly unusual in gunshot deaths, which are normally extremely messy.

30. Dr. Julian Orenstein, the doctor who certified Foster's death at the morgue, says he did not see any exit wound in Foster's head. The fact is all the people who initially handled the body say they did not see an exit wound. Consider that none of these people had a vested interest in the operative suicide conclusion.

31. Dr. Donald Haut, the medical examiner who visited the death site, has steadfastly supported the suicide conclusion. He told the FBI he saw an exit wound. He also stated it "was consistent with a low velocity weapon" (jargon for a small gun such as a .22). In other words, it was a small wound with little blood. Later he repeated his comments about a lack of blood to reporter Chris Ruddy. Haut later denied this in an interview with CBS reporter Mike Wallace. Why did Haut change what he had previously said on two separate occasions? Even more puzzling, why would he deny this when he knew Ruddy had tape recorded his comments?

32. A medical technician at the death scene says he saw a small, circular wound on Foster's neck, just below the jaw line. He says it "looked like a small-caliber entrance wound." (For reasons stated below, one has to consider the possibility this was an exit wound.)

33. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, a respected British reporter, claims he has seen a photo of this wound. He says the wound was on "the right-hand side, about halfway along the jaw and about an inch below the jaw." He describes it as "a clearly visible wound about the size of a dime... It has the appearance of a small-calibre gunshot wound." He later said in a radio interview that the "wound on the neck is the origin and source of the blood that comes down the neck and trickles down the collar."

34. According to Hugh Sprunt, a highly respected Foster researcher, "White House sources... did indicate to the media very shortly after the death that two different guns were involved in the shooting a .22 and one a .38." Park Police notes of 7/26/93 also mention this, adding that the information came from the FBI.

35. Dr. John Haut signed a document dated July 20, 1993, entitled "Report of Investigation of Medical Examiner." In the words of Hugh Sprunt, "Page two says 'Self-inflicted gunshot wound mouth-neck' and there appears to be an alteration on page one from 'Perforating gunshot wound mouth-neck' to 'Perforating gunshot wound mouth-head.'" It is probably more precise to say whiteout was used on page one to cover what appears to be a four-letter word, possibly "neck." The word
"head" was typed next to this. Looking at this document, one notes that "head" is slightly higher than the rest of the typing. In other words, the document was removed from the typewriter and later re-inserted to alter it. Why? Consider that a .22 caliber slug fired into the mouth often ricochets and exits through soft locations such as the neck. "Mouth-neck" on a report indicates the gun was discharged in the mouth and the slug exited through the neck.

36. According to the FBI, no "coherent soil" from the park was found on Foster's shoes. Investigators for the independent Scalise Report had two men walk the trail to the death site wearing shoes similar to Foster's. In both cases, their shoes picked up microscopic dirt from the trail. CBS reporter Mike Wallace did the same experiment and also picked up dirt. In CBS' televised report on Foster's death a report that strongly endorsed the suicide conclusion, Wallace neglected to mention this private test. Why did he and CBS conceal this important fact?

37. A tow truck driver says he was sent to the Ft. Marcy Park to remove a car on the evening of Foster's death. He says the driver's window was broken, and there was blood on the dash and seats. No in-depth investigation of this odd story has ever been done by the FBI or Park Police. Did the premature suicide conclusion block another obvious path of investigation?

Vince Foster was a close family friend of the Clintons

The man who knew too much? The truth about the death of Hillary Clinton's close friend Vince Foster | Daily Mail Online

Oh he was devastated and depressed all right, they refer to Vince Foster as the man who knew to much

Whitewater was later seen as symptomatic of the culture that existed in Arkansas during Bill's governorship, when the Clintons' connections helped them to enrich themselves.

For example, to augment her $110,000 salary, Hillary had earned large sums from seats on local corporate boards, including Wal-Mart.'

One company chairman explained Hillary's presence on his board as "making sure he was in good grace with the people in power."

One of his first jobs in the White House was to try to make sense of the Clintons' false tax returns concerning the Whitewater land investment. A note in his hand-writing, found much later, warned that Whitewater was "a can of worms you shouldn't open."
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:10 AM
 
13,302 posts, read 7,867,411 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Special Prosecutor Starr spent YEARS trying to prove Clinton wrongdoing. And couldn't come up with an iota of evidence. Whitewater was a failed real estate venture. Period. And if you want to argue about that, then come up with some evidence of your own. Which you will be unable to do.
The Starr and the Clintons had been political cohorts for a long time.

Ken Starr reduced all of the serious crimes (string of murders) to misdemeanor blowjobbery.

There were no serious investigations into the higher crimes.

That's how politics is, compromise.

Only high class white trash would insist on having their cigar marinated.

The jealously! The absolute jealously of the Limbaugh camp!

This is why Hillary forgave him. It was a coup d'etat over the vast right wing conspiracy.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,892 posts, read 30,262,451 times
Reputation: 19087
and here is the biggy

Foster knew that in shielding Hillary, he might have to mislead congressional investigators under oath - a grim prospect for a man who took pride in being a straight arrow.

By mid-July, he had lost more than a stone in weight and seemed unusually subdued. He twice told his wife that he felt under pressure and was thinking of returning to Arkansas.

Talking to a colleague about his dealings with Hillary, he said: "It's not the same." On one matter after another, he confided, she would bark "Fix it, Vince!" or "Handle it, Vince!" and leave him to pick up the pieces.


When someone is honest to a fault, it is their character trait, its no wonder Vince Foster was deeply depressed....he had to testify under oath...and he wasn't about to lie now....
He knew the consequences that his testimony held, not just to himself, but to Hillary. And so did she.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,933,215 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
First of all, I've been basically a libertarian when it comes to social issues for decades - pretty much since I could vote. Just wanted to make that clear.

Secondly, I can't help but notice that you are very quick to resort to personal insults - the refuge of those who really are short on actual points.

And finally, I have my own personal opinions, based on personal experience as well as simply long term (53 years) observation, when it comes to marriage vows, and the abuse of those vows. I don't think it's morally superior for anyone - male or female - to "stand by their spouse" when that spouse is abusive, or predatory, or engages in multiple (and even worse - very public) affairs. I don't care if they are a republican, a democrat, or a Tibetan. Generally speaking, I don't think that sort of behavior should be enabled by a spouse.
Does not matter what you call yourself, we can only determine your stand by what you say.

Where did I insult you personally? Do you not stand by your words, can't you stand having someone point out that you are what you claim others are, judgmental?

Once again you are judging others, to call a woman weak because she stuck by her husband is strange beyond belief, because it is far easier to simply walk away than it is to put forth the major effort to get it worked out and save their marriage. Sounds like you are not very Conservative in your thinking on the topic, I guess that is where you get the Liberal (Libertarian) side of your POV.

Personally I commend any couple that is willing to fight to save their marriage, we have become far too quick to marry and divorce when things get tough in this Nation, now that shows a major lack of character and those that condone it should not be berating those that believe in doing what is necessary to save their marriage. It takes far more character and strength to work hard to save something important than it takes to simply give up and walk away, when it comes to a leader I believe I would rather have someone that has the qualities to fight for what is important than someone that simply gives up, it is a leadership quality and thanks for pointing it out for all to see, I am sure the DNC appreciates your efforts.
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