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Old 08-23-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,553,504 times
Reputation: 3602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Doesn't matter because there will be an immediate court challenge and your side will lose because an executive order cannot possibly revoke the citizenship of a discrete group of people without due process.

Obama's executive orders on immigration derive their authority from prosecutorial discretion. People argue over what that term really entails, but that's his justification and it is a colorable argument. We will find out from the SCOTUS soon enough.

Mick
Or the reverse is equally possible. You see one side without hearing what the other side is saying. Very much like Obama.
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:30 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,553,504 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
There is no law to be written. Regular Federal legislation passed by Congress cannot override or overwrite the Constitution. This should be obvious; otherwise why would anyone ever try to follow the onerous amendment process for the Constitution? Just pass a bill, right? Nope.

As I wrote elsewhere in this thread, there are two ways to change the Constitution, one is to pass a Constitutional amendment and ratify it, and the second is by a SCOTUS ruling. There is no way to have a Constitutional amendment ratified because the Democrats control enough state legislatures to block the amendment from getting the requisite 38 states to ratify.

Mick
SCOTUS would have to be involved in the interpretation and implementation of such a law. If you read the 14th amendment, it does not apply in this case, as it was originally conceived.
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:31 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,553,504 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Any group that supports abortion, evolution, marriage equality, gun rights, or equal pay does not need to be paid attention to. They simply do NOT matter.

There, I fixed it for ya. Ya betcha!

Mick
Warning: liberal disassembling in the above statement. Unrelated topics trying to sound pertinent.
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:33 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,553,504 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
As I explained in my earlier post, there is no "bill". No bill can override or overwrite the Constitution, when the SCOTUS has expressly passed on the meaning of the phrase in question. Do you think a bill can overturn the SCOTUS? If that were the case. the Republicans would have overruled Roe v. Wade about 40 years ago.

Mick
Yet a presidential apparently can: see Obama.
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:34 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,553,504 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Jeff Foxworthy: "If you have to ask someone if he is a liberal after he has posted something that makes it obvious. . . . you might be a conservative."

Mick
Outside of your posts, are you admitting your liberalism? Not that it was a secret since it is rampant in your posts to the exclusion of actual thought.
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:22 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,899,930 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
I've had this discussion with you about Islam and stereotyping before - Muslims are NOT monolithic and your comments are bordering on broadbrush stereotyping.

Using your words, I think an Iraqi would have a better justification to saying that they've "lost more and more respect for Christians" since the US, a largely Christian nation who professes to love peace and democracy, has bombed the heck out of their nation and visited death and destruction on their people.
The rep of Muslims IS getting worse and worse and, that's the hard truth! EVERY time some fool claiming "jihad" tries to hurt "soft targets"; the hate against their kind grows. Like that mess on the train in France; what stopped that 1 cold was a Frenchman saw what was coming down and got out the word for backup, 3 Americans went into action and beat the hell out of that Islamist pig.

Like I've said: the rep of Muslims except for maybe the Sufis is fast becoming mud and, it's on them for doing the PR damage.

Iraq: that WAS a big screwup on Bush 43, def a real bone head move.
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Old 08-24-2015, 01:22 AM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,618,587 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
That's all true but the sad fact is many Latinos do think alike on illegal immigration and therefore they won't vote for Trump.
How do you know this? Or do you state assumption as fact?
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Old 08-24-2015, 01:24 AM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,618,587 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
As I wrote elsewhere in this thread, there are two ways to change the Constitution, one is to pass a Constitutional amendment and ratify it, and the second is by a SCOTUS ruling. There is no way to have a Constitutional amendment ratified because the Democrats control enough state legislatures to block the amendment from getting the requisite 38 states to ratify.

Mick
You are absolutely wrong on this.

The Supreme Court has no power at all to change the US Constitution.
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Old 08-24-2015, 02:08 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,990 posts, read 44,804,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Thanks for your post. Like you stated, 2/3 of the state legislatures can request Congress to hold an Article V convention to vote on such an amendment.
That's not even necessary. All we have to do is actually follow the 14th Amendment and federal nationality law.

Again, for those who don't know...
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Time again to post the long legal history on this and/or refresh everyone's memory...

The children of illegal aliens born in the U.S. were never intended to have birthright citizenship. This is how we know...

1) The 14th Amendment and it's original intent:

Senator Trumbull: "The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof? Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means."

Congressional Record:
http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llcg/073/0000/00152893.tif

Trumbull's role in drafting and introducing the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th Amendment:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100304...about/history/

Children born in the U.S. to a foreign citizen parent whose country has jus sanguinis (right of blood) citizenship law were never supposed to be born U.S. citizens. They may choose to naturalize as a U.S. citizen at some point, but they were never intended to be U.S. citizens at birth. Only those ignorant of historical fact and the Congressional Record misinterpret the 14th Amendment to mean anything else.

2) Article XXV Section 1992 of the 1877 Revised Statutes, enacted after the 14th Amendment, which clarified exactly who are U.S. citizens at birth per the Constitution:

"All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States".

Revised Statutes of the United States, Passed at the First Session of the ... - United States

3) U.S. Secretaries of State determinations as to exactly who has birthright citizenship:

Secretary of State Frederick Frelinghuysen determined Ludwig Hausding, though born in the U.S., was not born a U.S. citizen because he was subject to a foreign power at birth having been born to a Saxon subject alien father.

Similarly, Secretary of State Thomas Bayard determined Richard Greisser, though born in Ohio, was not born a U.S. citizen because Greisser's father, too, was an alien, a German subject at the time of Greisser's birth. Bayard specifically stated that Greisser was at birth 'subject to a foreign power,' therefore not "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Both cases cited in this digest:
A Digest of the International Law of the United States: Taken from Documents ... - Google Books

4) In regards to illegal aliens' anchor babies... Their parents were NOT in the U.S. legally and therefore did NOT have a permanent domicile and residence in the U.S. as did Wong Kim Ark's, a fact on which SCOTUS based their determination that WKA was born a U.S. citizen:

WKA decision:

"The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative."

The parents must have a permanent domicile and residence in the U.S. WKA's parents were living in the U.S. legally. Illegal immigrants don't have a permanent domicile in the U.S. because they are in the country illegally. Furthermore, it is a federal offense to harbor an illegal alien in the U.S., or aid or abet in their harboring in the U.S. Illegal aliens' permanent domicile is in their home country; the country which would issue their passports were they to have one.

For political reasons, the 14th Amendment has been bastardized since then, but such bastardization was never an actual Constitutional Amendment.

5) The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 which had to be enacted because even when Native Americans were born in the U.S., they were not U.S. citizens. Why? Because they were subject to a foreign power (Indian Nations). Note that the 1924 date of this Act is significantly later than both the 14th Amendment and the Wong Kim Ark ruling.

I realize that's a lot of historical information to digest. But sadly, our public education system is such a joke that very few people are aware of the history surrounding the 14 Amendment and how subsequent births to parents of various nationalities were treated in the U.S. up until "policy" (not the Constitution or the law) very recently changed.

There has never been any law passed, similar to the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act, that gives birthright citizenship to anyone born in the U.S. but subject to a foreign power.
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Old 08-24-2015, 02:33 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,990 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13693
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post

Obama's executive orders on immigration derive their authority from prosecutorial discretion. People argue over what that term really entails, but that's his justification and it is a colorable argument. We will find out from the SCOTUS soon enough.

Mick
Obama's EOs that harbor illegal aliens in the U.S. are a violation of federal law. Obama should be prosecuted.

It IS a federal offense to harbor, or aid or abet the harboring of illegal aliens in the U.S.

8 U.S. Code § 1324 - Bringing in and harboring certain aliens | LII / Legal Information Institute

Obama's EOs on illegal immigration are acts of aiding and abetting the harboring of illegal aliens in the U.S. That is clearly illegal. The U.S. President does not have the authority to issue an EO that violates federal law. In fact, Obama himself should be prosecuted for issuing those EOs. He's directly committed federal offenses in doing so.
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