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Old 10-29-2015, 04:19 PM
 
Location: The Windy City
5,300 posts, read 3,299,778 times
Reputation: 4509

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Just checked my last pay stub. Federal, state, and FICA take about 10% of my monthly income. When you factor in sales tax, health insurance, and the cost of a college education, 25% in Scandinavian countries seems pretty fair.

Seems like taxes in most European countries are put toward the good of the people. Federal taxes here in the US seem to be misused.

When I lived in France, I think income tax was around 30%. However, I didn't have to worry about paying $300/mo (probably closer to $500 or more if you're older) for health insurance.
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Old 10-29-2015, 04:48 PM
 
14 posts, read 8,389 times
Reputation: 16
Is he actually proposing a 25% sales tax?
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:42 PM
 
66,447 posts, read 30,302,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
Just checked my last pay stub. Federal, state, and FICA take about 10% of my monthly income. When you factor in sales tax, health insurance, and the cost of a college education, 25% in Scandinavian countries seems pretty fair.
The 25% VAT is in addition to all those other taxes. That's how Scandinavia does it. Bernie wants the U.S. to be like Scandinavia.
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Vagabond
156 posts, read 144,187 times
Reputation: 203
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I agree with some points:

We are eventually going to have to tax the rich, and probably the rest of the country. I'm not here to philosophize whether the rich need all their money, but someone's gotta pay up and I don't want it to be the working and middle class. We are going to drown in debt and economically collapse if we keep going at this rate. I'd probably be OK with paying a little more in tax if the government gets much leaner and less wasteful, just to get us out of this financial mess.

The minimum wage is a joke and need to increase to $13-15/hour. Yes, prices will increase, but everyone will have enough money that the price increase is negligible. Our country is becoming an entire nation of low-wage peasants.

I can support free community college, but not every 4 year. It's just way too expensive. Have you ever seen the college campuses in Europe? They look like elementary schools. That's why they are free.
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Old 10-30-2015, 04:51 AM
 
66,447 posts, read 30,302,435 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuffolkIntellect View Post
I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I agree with some points:

We are eventually going to have to tax the rich
I'm not sure why you think the rich aren't already being taxed the most. The top 0.1% (minimum income of $2,160,000) households earn 11.25% of the income, but pay 18.6% of the federal income tax revenue. In direct contrast, those in the middle class income group (household income of $50,500, the national average) earn 19.6% of the income but pay only 10.8% of the federal income tax revenue. The rich are already paying a tax rate that is 3 times that of the middle class.

IRS Data and States, here:
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

Quote:
and probably the rest of the country
THAT'S the change we need to make. If Americans want Scandinavian/European-style more and better social and safety net programs, they're going to HAVE to pay Scandinavian/European-style REGRESSIVE taxes (greatest tax burden on the middle class and poor) to fund them. Taxing regressively is the only way those goals have ever been successfully and adequately funded.

Read and learn:

Other countries don’t have a “47%” - The Washington Post

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho..._Labels_.0.jpg

How Sweden and other Scandinavian and European countries fight inequality - regressive rather than progressive taxes

Pay close attention to the charts.

PLUS, Scandinavian and European countries have no FATCA laws as does the U.S. Their rich are legally able to hide wealth, income, profits, and gains in foreign accounts so that they're completely tax-free.

Would you agree to do all of the above in the U.S.?

Quote:
I'm not here to philosophize whether the rich need all their money, but someone's gotta pay up and I don't want it to be the working and middle class.
Why not? That's exactly how Scandinavian and European countries do it.

I'm wondering why so many people are unaware of the facts I've posted in this read. What's up with that?
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Old 10-30-2015, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Vagabond
156 posts, read 144,187 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I'm not sure why you think the rich aren't already being taxed the most. The top 0.1% (minimum income of $2,160,000) households earn 11.25% of the income, but pay 18.6% of the federal income tax revenue. In direct contrast, those in the middle class income group (household income of $50,500, the national average) earn 19.6% of the income but pay only 10.8% of the federal income tax revenue. The rich are already paying a tax rate that is 3 times that of the middle class.

IRS Data and States, here:
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

THAT'S the change we need to make. If Americans want Scandinavian/European-style more and better social and safety net programs, they're going to HAVE to pay Scandinavian/European-style REGRESSIVE taxes (greatest tax burden on the middle class and poor) to fund them. Taxing regressively is the only way those goals have ever been successfully and adequately funded.

Read and learn:

Other countries don’t have a “47%” - The Washington Post

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho..._Labels_.0.jpg

How Sweden and other Scandinavian and European countries fight inequality - regressive rather than progressive taxes

Pay close attention to the charts.

PLUS, Scandinavian and European countries have no FATCA laws as does the U.S. Their rich are legally able to hide wealth, income, profits, and gains in foreign accounts so that they're completely tax-free.

Would you agree to do all of the above in the U.S.?

Why not? That's exactly how Scandinavian and European countries do it.

I'm wondering why so many people are unaware of the facts I've posted in this read. What's up with that?
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post. I wasn't referring to Scandinavia. Wasn't even thinking about them. I also know that the rich pay the most in tax. They will need to pay more to pay down the debt.
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:01 AM
 
66,447 posts, read 30,302,435 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuffolkIntellect View Post
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post. I wasn't referring to Scandinavia. Wasn't even thinking about them.
This is a thread asking Sanders supporters if they would agree to an additional 25% VAT. Sanders frequently states he wants the U.S. to provide benefits like Scandinavia, but he never tells his supporters that a major change in our federal tax system - making it significantly regressive instead of continuing on with our current significantly progressive tax code - would need to be done to accomplish that.

Quote:
I also know that the rich pay the most in tax. They will need to pay more to pay down the debt.
You'll drive even more of them and the jobs they provide out of the country. Then, guess who'll end up paying anyway?

The articles I linked (with research citations) discussed exactly that. Regressive consumption taxes are the only form of taxation that doesn't harm economic growth.
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:13 AM
 
998 posts, read 546,613 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuffolkIntellect View Post
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post. I wasn't referring to Scandinavia. Wasn't even thinking about them. I also know that the rich pay the most in tax. They will need to pay more to pay down the debt.
That's a fantasy. You can take the wallets of rich people in the US and squeeze them dry, and you'd still only pay off the national debt a few percentage points.

Tax The Rich? The Rich Don't Have Enough. Really.

If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. We're now over 18 TRILLION in debt. So that would be a whopping 3 percent payoff. And every year, government spending goes up and up. And think of it this way... are you more likely to spend more when you go shopping if you have cash in your pocket or a credit card? Psychologists would tell us, the credit card for sure. So how do you think our government would act if they suddenly received an influx of new money? They're not exactly known for restraint and responsible spending.. they can't spend money fast enough! They would take it all and create thousands of more desk jobs for bean counters to study "the effects of global warming on squirrels" or some nonsense. In other words, it would go straight to the coffers.
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Places you dream of
20,199 posts, read 12,109,645 times
Reputation: 8767
put people to work- with a good wage and collect a good tax
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:22 AM
 
78,823 posts, read 33,532,796 times
Reputation: 15788
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
put people to work- with a good wage and collect a good tax
This.......people from both viewpoints argue all kinds of things except this. All these problems boil down to the same problem. Jobs leaving. No it is not inevitable.....Yes, some jobs are lost through technology but more are lost by sending them overseas.

I've mentioned this story before......I went shopping with the wife.....We are in one of the chain shoe stores and I picked up a pair of plastic shoes. $50. I look further, made in China. There is no way that anyone can convince me that we can not make plastic shoes here profitably at $50.

I want to vote for Sanders but often times I think I would be better off voting for someone like Trump.....at least then 50% of the voting public would again decide that this was a problem that needed addressed.
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