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Old 10-31-2015, 12:01 PM
 
79,091 posts, read 33,597,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You realize a VAT or National Sales Tax would take away money from states and funnel it to the FedGov.
It would seem to me that we would debate that when someone serious proposed it. Until then the discussion is pretty meaningless.
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: North America
14,210 posts, read 10,109,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Your argument is a logical fallacy. Why should I pay a 25% sales tax when we could just use the trillions we are wasting on the wars and the bribes to other countries?
Zing!
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:30 PM
 
66,501 posts, read 30,333,656 times
Reputation: 8671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Why are you wondering about it? Promotion of regression taxation isn't one of the bulwarks of Democrats' ideology like it is Republicans'.
You seem to be confused. All the democratic socialist countries (Scandinavia/Europe) with their more and better social and safety net programs have regressive tax systems. Republicans want the U.S. to be a democratic socialist country? Um... no.
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:40 PM
 
66,501 posts, read 30,333,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
They still have to pay taxes on their worldwide income as residents of Sweden or Norway.
False. They have no FATCA laws. Foreign accounts can and do remain secret and hidden.

And I already posted a comparison of corporate taxes as a percentage of revenues. U.S. corporate tax revenue is not out of line with that of Scandinavian countries, except Norway. Norway's largest source of tax revenue, however is still their taxes on goods and services (VAT, etc.), which EVERYONE pays.

Percent of tax revenue from corporations:

U.S.: 10%
Sweden: 8%
Finland: 6%
Norway: 25%

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/consumption/revenue-statistics-and-consumption-tax-trends-2014-united-states.pdf

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/consumption/revenue-statistics-and-consumption-tax-trends-2014-sweden.pdf

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/consumption/revenue-statistics-and-consumption-tax-trends-2014-finland.pdf

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/consumption/revenue-statistics-and-consumption-tax-trends-2014-norway.pdf

Also, it must be said that taxes on corporations are paid by either the end user/consumer, the shareholders (overwhelmingly Main Street America, as already noted), or both.

Obama's alma mater's business school states that corporations' employees also pay:
Who Pays Corporate Taxes? Possibly You
https://hbr.org/2014/08/who-pays-corporate-taxes-possibly-you/
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:46 PM
 
66,501 posts, read 30,333,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tujuleez1 View Post
While reading a book based in Sweden, I learned fines for crimes, be they misdemeanors or criminal, were a multiple of your income. The idea being the fines penalized everyone the same, regardless of income.

Ability to pay is an important part of equality. All men are created equal does not mean all men begin life at an equal position. I've known people who started in poverty and worked very hard to get to the middle class, and that's as far as they got. And I've known upper class people who were extremely lazy but they remained in the upper class all their life.

And yet, those upper class people were the first to complain that they had to support "those lazy bums" with their taxes.

On the other hand, one of those rise-out-of-poverty middle classers would often say, "I have no problem paying the taxes I do. I feel blessed I make enough to pay taxes. And I'm happy some of what I pay is going to people who are where I came from."

Ability to pay is a factor crucial to living in a democracy.
Then why do democratic socialist countries (Scandinavia/Europe) have regressive tax systems?

Read and learn:

Other countries don’t have a “47%” - The Washington Post

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho..._Labels_.0.jpg

How Sweden and other Scandinavian and European countries fight inequality - regressive rather than progressive taxes

Pay close attention to the charts.

Scandinavian countries also apply their top marginal income tax rate to the middle class, while the U.S. top marginal tax rate only applies to the top 1%:

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/Progressivity%20of%20Scandanavian%20and%20US%20Inc ome%20Taxes.png
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:52 PM
 
66,501 posts, read 30,333,656 times
Reputation: 8671
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You realize a VAT or National Sales Tax would take away money from states and funnel it to the FedGov.

Your state is the better bet over the Fed to deal with state issues.

The Fed, on the other hand, doesn't do that.

What is happening is more and more control, power and money is going to the Fed.
One centralized government to rule over all ?
I agree that the administration of social and safety net programs should be left to the states, as the Constitution intended. That way we could have high tax, high benefits states... and low tax, low benefits states. People could vote by choosing in which to live.
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:16 PM
 
12,843 posts, read 4,646,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
False. They have no FATCA laws. Foreign accounts can and do remain secret and hidden.
You constantly spam the threads with this, but when corporations have to pay more in taxes in Sweden and Denmark than in the US, then clearly your claim that the rich can just hide their profits just does not hold up to scrutiny. The rich do pay plenty of taxes in these countries. These countries even disclose the tax returns of all residents online, so everyone can look up and see what people have paid in taxes. It's a very open system.

Here for example is another example in Spain, the most famous soccer player in the world trying to do what you claim is so legal and easy:

Quote:
Messi and his father Jorge are accused of defrauding Spain of more than €4m (£3.1m; $5m). They deny any wrongdoing.

Lawyers acting on behalf of the tax authorities demanded 22-month jail sentences for both defendants.
Prosecutors allege that Jorge avoided paying tax on his son's earnings by using offshore companies in Belize and Uruguay in 2007-09.
Lionel Messi to stand trial for tax fraud in Spain - BBC News
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:33 PM
 
12,843 posts, read 4,646,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Indeed they have and they have been fought tooth and nail by those same people that would support Sanders if he proposed either.
.
Those people are people like in Kansas and Alabama. They shift the tax burden to the poor after destroying the unions and keeping wages low and the social safety net non-existent. In the US, the states with the most regressive taxation are also the most regressive in terms of spending while states like Minnesota and Vermont are on the other end of the scale.

Of course people object to that Kansas Koch brothers agenda.
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:37 PM
 
79,091 posts, read 33,597,768 times
Reputation: 15834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Those people are people like in Kansas and Alabama. They shift the tax burden to the poor after destroying the unions and keeping wages low and the social safety net non-existent. In the US, the states with the most regressive taxation are also the most regressive in terms of spending while states like Minnesota and Vermont are on the other end of the scale.

Of course people object to that Kansas Koch brothers agenda.
I realize it's Holloween but the boogeyman arguments are juvenile.
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:46 PM
 
12,843 posts, read 4,646,651 times
Reputation: 5213
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I realize it's Holloween but the boogeyman arguments are juvenile.
It's well known what the Koch brothers want. They have had tremendous success and plenty of people in here support their agenda, working stiff who tirelessly carry the water for the wealthiest people in the country.
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