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Old 11-02-2015, 04:08 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 6,814,629 times
Reputation: 2034

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Serious? And you claim others don't understand how things work? Wow. I'm not often surprised here but I was glad I was sitting down for this one.
As I replied above, a lot of the dire predictions made about QE simply has not come true.



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You have to start with a valid position. It did exactly what it was intended to do. No, it did not work for a vast majority of people but it did work.
And what was it intended to do?
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:50 PM
 
79,555 posts, read 33,800,709 times
Reputation: 15972
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
As I replied above, a lot of the dire predictions made about QE simply has not come true.
The major ones have. IMO a lot of the dire predictions were actually positives that should have been allowed to happen.

All the same that is a diversion from you not understanding the relationship with QE, the stock markets and our growing wealth gap.

(P.S. I know you understand but to say otherwise would cast a negative shadow over the last seven years and you just can't bring yourself to do it)

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And what was it intended to do?
Just what it did. Blow the stock market bubble back up.
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:47 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 6,814,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The major ones have. IMO a lot of the dire predictions were actually positives that should have been allowed to happen.
Which major ones? All that inflation nonsense was simply nonsense from the gold bugs and old guard.

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All the same that is a diversion from you not understanding the relationship with QE, the stock markets and our growing wealth gap.
So approximately how much was stock inflated due to QE? 5% 10% 15% Just give me a ball park answer.

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(P.S. I know you understand but to say otherwise would cast a negative shadow over the last seven years and you just can't bring yourself to do it)
I have no problem giving criticism where it's due, but QE was needed.

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Just what it did. Blow the stock market bubble back up.
You're confusing consequences with causes.

Providing the markets liquidity was the purpose of QE. Let me know when you're ready to understand how monetary and fiscal policy go hand in hand.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:46 PM
 
79,555 posts, read 33,800,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Which major ones? All that inflation nonsense was simply nonsense from the gold bugs and old guard.
Ask the mother shopping at the grocery store if she believes inflation has been almost non existent. This is what is wrong with those that argue as you do. It has to be politics, politics, politics all the time even if it's the polar opposite of a position you have taken elsewhere.

Who cares what the gold sellers say?

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So approximately how much was stock inflated due to QE? 5% 10% 15% Just give me a ball park answer.
This is another fallacious question. It matters none what the actual percent is. It harmed one segment (the segment that could least afford it) to benefit the top percent. That is something the government has no place doing.

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I have no problem giving criticism where it's due, but QE was needed.
Something all corporatist knee jerkingly claim.

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You're confusing consequences with causes.

Providing the markets liquidity was the purpose of QE. Let me know when you're ready to understand how monetary and fiscal policy go hand in hand.
Nobody had any problem getting money at any point. If you had a need the money was there. Hell the government was paying the banks interest to hold on to the money. If it was an idea to provide money to loan out to boost the economy you would have penalized them for holding it, not gave them even more of the taxpayers money.

P.S. you sure ask alot of questions for someone that avoided my earlier points and questions in post 269.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:48 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 6,814,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Ask the mother shopping at the grocery store if she believes inflation has been almost non existent. This is what is wrong with those that argue as you do.
I'd tell the mother shopping at the grocery store that her food prices are higher mostly because of supply and demand. Global economic boom means more people can eat and someone has to grow and/or raise that food. Droughts, floods, and pestilence still hurts crops and livestock. Beef got hit by droughts and plain old bad timing which caused a spike but they've since come down.


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It has to be politics, politics, politics all the time even if it's the polar opposite of a position you have taken elsewhere.
Go on...

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This is another fallacious question. It matters none what the actual percent is. It harmed one segment (the segment that could least afford it) to benefit the top percent. That is something the government has no place doing.
Sure it does as you're implying that the purpose was to make the rich, richer. My opinion is that, is that capitalism makes the rich, richer but I'm not calling for capitalism to end. The other segment needed a stronger fiscal policy.

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Something all corporatist knee jerkingly claim.
I'm simply a realist. The money is out there for anyone to take advantage of that is in a position to do so.

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Nobody had any problem getting money at any point. If you had a need the money was there. Hell the government was paying the banks interest to hold on to the money. If it was an idea to provide money to loan out to boost the economy you would have penalized them for holding it, not gave them even more of the taxpayers money.
The bailouts were tax payer money I believe, QE is simply more magic, wizardry concepts where money is being created out of thin air incrementally and then later taken away incrementally. Japan toyed around with it before the new millennium but the jury is still out as Japan has grown very slowly economically.

The Feds already brought interest rates down to zero pre-QE, this was the their next tool in the toolbox.

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P.S. you sure ask alot of questions for someone that avoided my earlier points and questions in post 269.
Informedconsent took up my attention with her quest to put words in Sander's mouth or specifically one word in particular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
O.K.......what about the lower 50%. Are you saying now that all is well with them and their complaints are bogus and they should just shut up?

The single mom that went underwater on her home and tried to refinance after losing her job at G.E. but couldn't and lost it should just be happy because you got a cheap car loan?
Ah. Now see this is where that fiscal policy comes in handy. Monetary and fiscal policy are like yin and yang. Guess who holds the purse strings for the fiscal policy?
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,882 posts, read 2,393,218 times
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First off..There will never be 25% "Sales Tax" as that is assigned by a State..But when I purchase something..Anything..there is always builtin Fed/State/Provincial tax embedded prior to ticket price) and at point of purchase "Sales tax" is an add on...So I really do not understand the thread title at all?????
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:22 PM
 
79,555 posts, read 33,800,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
I'd tell the mother shopping at the grocery store that her food prices are higher mostly because of supply and demand. Global economic boom means more people can eat and someone has to grow and/or raise that food. Droughts, floods, and pestilence still hurts crops and livestock. Beef got hit by droughts and plain old bad timing which caused a spike but they've since come down.
I'm sure you would use that excuse. Trillions pumped into commodities had absolutely nothing to do with it of course.

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Sure it does as you're implying that the purpose was to make the rich, richer. My opinion is that, is that capitalism makes the rich, richer but I'm not calling for capitalism to end. The other segment needed a stronger fiscal policy.
I'm not implying anything. I'm stating it matter of factly.

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I'm simply a realist. The money is out there for anyone to take advantage of that is in a position to do so.
Yes there is all kinds of free money out there for those with money.

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The bailouts were tax payer money I believe, QE is simply more magic, wizardry concepts where money is being created out of thin air incrementally and then later taken away incrementally. Japan toyed around with it before the new millennium but the jury is still out as Japan has grown very slowly economically.
Odd that nothing has been taken away. At least not for those that benefitted. A clear fall down the social ladder for the rest though.

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The Feds already brought interest rates down to zero pre-QE, this was the their next tool in the toolbox.
Again you show your ignorance on the subject. It works the other way around.

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Informedconsent took up my attention with her quest to put words in Sander's mouth or specifically one word in particular.
I'm pretty sure you aren't one to understand and explain Sanders positions as you have taken the opposite of them.

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Ah. Now see this is where that fiscal policy comes in handy. Monetary and fiscal policy are like yin and yang. Guess who holds the purse strings for the fiscal policy?
You still failed to address my point.
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:54 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 6,814,629 times
Reputation: 2034
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I'm sure you would use that excuse. Trillions pumped into commodities had absolutely nothing to do with it of course.
Let's see. Commodities have been rising most of the 21st century in conjunction with the global economic boom, except in 2008 and then in mid 2015 when China's bubble finally burst. I'm not following you.

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I'm not implying anything. I'm stating it matter of factly.
Then you're confusing consequences with causes.

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Yes there is all kinds of free money out there for those with money.
Yep... the ability to buy a modest sedan here. Big money, let me tell ya.

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Odd that nothing has been taken away. At least not for those that benefitted. A clear fall down the social ladder for the rest though.
And that has nothing to do with the fact that companies have simply become more profitable as the expense of labor using technology and globalization? A lot positions never came back after the 2008 crash. That 2008 crash set a lot of folks back, especially those who built a house on sand.

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Again you show your ignorance on the subject. It works the other way around.
O rly?

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I'm pretty sure you aren't one to understand and explain Sanders positions as you have taken the opposite of them.
I agree with him on many things, but obviously not everything. I'd much prefer a stronger, more efficient social net from the cradle to the grave, but I may not agree with Sanders on how to get there.

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You still failed to address my point.
I did address it, you just failed to understand that a strong fiscal policy is needed along with QE. The fiscal policy is what is used to create the demand for more people to take advantage of the easy money (QE). It could be something as simple as no income taxes for a year to something more directed like a bigger, longer infrastructure rebuilding plan. And everything in between, but Congress controls the purse strings.
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:58 PM
 
79,555 posts, read 33,800,709 times
Reputation: 15972
And they let loose of $800 million dollars. Too bad it largely went to campaign donors.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
18,285 posts, read 10,184,941 times
Reputation: 7101
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Bernie supporters love using Denmark and other Scandinavian countries as role models for America. However, most supporters don't realize there is no such thing as a free meal.

For example, Denmark has a regressive tax system along with most Scandinavian countries. Not only are income taxes higher on middle class than here, but they also pay a 25% sales tax.

Would you be fine getting free college if it meant paying 25% sales tax and more in income tax for the rest of your lives?
It depends. What do we get for the money?
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