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Old 11-07-2015, 07:43 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 2,693,153 times
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With Hillary pretty much a lock-in for the Democratic nomination, I thought that I'd share my thoughts of her, both good and bad, here. On this forum, I think we need more impartial views of all politicians, so this may be a good place to start.

The good:

-Hillary seems like she has a bit of faith, which I appreciate. In the last debate, she used the term "God-given rights" a few times, and she claims that she was inspired by the Bible a few times, so I like that. When Bill was President, they also put on quite a few nice Christmas celebrations, so I doubt she is agnostic or atheist in any way.

-Hillary has always valued the importance of big-business. From her days as a Director on the board of Walmart, to her term as a New York Senator, she hasn't been afraid to acknowledge that big business is a vital part of the American economy. She has since changed quite a bit on this, but that will come up later.

-Hillary is definitely an introvert, so I can empathize a bit with her on that. People often call her cold and sterile, but that's more of a personality trait then a personality flaw. I'm a bit like that, so I can't in any way knock her for that. Maybe she's in the wrong profession, politicians have to be personable, but I can't in any way fault her for that.

The bad:

-Hillary is the ultimate finger pointer. From the "vast right-wing conspiracy" comments, to the "my biggest enemies are Republicans" line at the last debate, she seems more willing to make enemies than friends. This has always really surprised me. Her husband Bill was always willing to reach across the aisle and work with Republicans, even when both sides did not see eye-to-eye. This is what made Bill such a popular President. In many ways, Hillary is more like Al Gore. Picking fights does not bring people to your side, and I think some Congressional Republicans could learn that as well. This is something that I would consider a true character flaw.

-Hillary's ethics, in my eyes, are also suspect. Brush off the email thing if you want, but it does pose some questions about her integrity. Why hide a server in your own home? Was it to hide information from congressional oversight? If you do everything by the book, why would you need to hide a server before you became Secretary of State? These are questions that I can't find an easy answer for. Any way you look at it, it boils down to her wanting to keep the information private (which is why she kept it in her home). In government, that is a big no-no.

-Hillary seems to jump on every new bandwagon that passes to gain votes. In 2008, many of her positions were somewhat moderate and more like those of centrist Bill Clinton. Now, she's trying to race Bernie to the left. Bill Clinton's criminal justice reform? She denounced that in this election cycle. Bill Clinton's welfare reform? She denounced that this election cycle. Her valuing big business? She's trying to take a more populist approach now. Her views on gay marriage? They only changed in 2013 when it became more politically acceptable to approve of it. Her views in 2008, I even made a thread about this, seemed more genuine and indicative of who she truly was (I didn't really mind her back then). Now, she's moving really far to the left and posing as the populist that she never was.

-Hillary is already starting to play up the "I'm a woman" thing. That's fine and dandy, but don't try and label people a sexist for not believing the same way you do. Her swipe at Sanders was totally unwarranted.

In conclusion:

I really try and like Hillary, but she gives me plenty of reasons not to. Do I think she's qualified to be President? Strictly by her resume, yes, but her ethics are more often than not absent. Do I think she held good views in the past? Absolutely. I loved how much she valued big business. Instead of jumping on the "I hate corporations" bandwagon, why not try and move views within the party? I would respect that a lot more. Hillary is a very complex person, so there is quite to think about when delving deeper into her beliefs and her past. I really just wish that she stuck with her guns on some of the issues that made her, and her husband, so popular to begin with.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:01 PM
 
Location: West Texas
2,366 posts, read 1,243,267 times
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To sum up, Hillary is just another run of the mill politician. Unethical, dishonest, politically expedient. Establishment politicians have given rise to folks like Trump, Carson, and Fiorina. Yes, those candidates also have their flaws but it seems like the American voters are fed up and are ready for change, especially after the catastrophe of the last seven years.
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:29 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 2,693,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizonite View Post
To sum up, Hillary is just another run of the mill politician. Unethical, dishonest, politically expedient. Establishment politicians have given rise to folks like Trump, Carson, and Fiorina. Yes, those candidates also have their flaws but it seems like the American voters are fed up and are ready for change, especially after the catastrophe of the last seven years.
Yeah, pretty much.
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Old 11-08-2015, 10:00 PM
 
491 posts, read 243,388 times
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I appreciate the OP's analysis.

As the OP indicated, Hillary may very well not be as liberal as she is currently portraying herself. However, the problem is that she has had to pander to the crazies given how far to the left the Democratic Party has moved during the Obama presidency. If Hillary were running as a center-left "New Democrat," she would not be handed the nomination on a silver platter; thus, her coronation comes at a steep price.

What scares me is that should she win, the extreme left of the Democratic Party will expect her to owe them big time. Honestly, it is understandable that they would feel that way, because of all she has had to do in order to be the likely nominee. However, because the crazies suspect that she is not a true believer, no amount of pandering on her part will be enough to satisfy them, and she will preside over a civil war within the Democratic Party during her one and only term.
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Old 11-08-2015, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle
1,378 posts, read 2,117,229 times
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The Clinton Body Bags... Food for Thought ( How can we afford another Clinton? ) Just a quick refresher course lest we forget what has happened to many "friends"of the Clintons .

1-James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

2 -Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown . The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

3- Vince Foster - Former White House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock 's Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

4- Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller commited suicide. [This crash was a trade mission to Yugoslavia. The stewardess is said to have walked onto the ambulance but was DOA at the hospital. The air traffice controller was engaged to be married. His fiancee said no way would he have committed suicide. His death occurred a few hours before a scheduled interview with the CIA. There is "confusion" about the time of the crash and the weather conditions.]

5- C. Victor Raiser II- Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

6-Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".

7-Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

8-Jerry Parks -Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

9-James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

10-James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He wasreported to have ties to Whitewater.

11-Kathy Ferguson- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

12-Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.

13-Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton's friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

14-Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena , Arkansas Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.

15- Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

16-Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

17-Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.

18- Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

19-Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.

20-Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

21-Charles Meissner -Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

22-Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

23-Barry Seal -Drug running TWA pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.

24-Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.

25-Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26- Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1,1994 when his plane exploded.
27-Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:

28-Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
29-Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
30-Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31-Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April
1989.
33-James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to "natural causes".
34-Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
35-Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
36 -Major William S. Barkley Jr.
37-Captain Scott J . Reynolds
38-Sgt. Brian Hanley
39-Sgt. Tim Sabel
40-Major General William Robertson
41-Col. William Densberger
42-Col. Robert Kelly
43-Spec. Gary Rhodes
44-Steve Willis
45-Robert Williams
46-Conway LeBleu
47-Todd McKeehan Quite an impressive list! Pass this on. Let the public become aware of what happens to friends of the Clinton's!


HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT? SURELY YOU JEST
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:05 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,621 posts, read 10,679,859 times
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A Hillary presidency would not be a disaster, but it would not inspire.

If counter-balanced by opposition in Congress, mainly the House, we would have 2-8 more years of status quo, which is the most likely outcome.

So, continued decline for average income people on US soil in the face of continued globalization (albeit at a slower pace than in the 1995-2007 period), while those with significant assets will hold their own, maybe decline slightly in relative terms as the 1% further reinforces its position.

Good Luck!
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,717 posts, read 11,567,690 times
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Although the OP decides for himself that he is impartial, which is contrary to his other posts, this thread is far from an "Impartial "Sizing-Up" of Hillary."

The OP heavily weighs the emails and the servers as evidence of "questions about her integrity" even though it hasn't been adjudicated that there was any wrong-doing. That's not impartial, that's bias.

Meanwhile, the OP dismisses as "finger pointing," when Mrs. Clinton discusses constant attacks upon her from the right-wing. One only needs to look at the posts on CD calling her "King Hillary" to know that her comments are justified. She has gone through decades of attacks from the right-wing on all kinds of absurd charges. Boosane, in post #5, repeats these conspiracy theories, which assumes anyone who has died in the last 25 years who had an association with the Clintons, was murdered.

The reality is that all the investigations against the Clintons; Travelgate, Whitewater, Benghazi, etc. have shown no wrongdoing by the Clintons.

What shows exceptional bias by the OP is calling Mrs. Clinton dishonest when Ben Carson is turning out to be a serial liar; Trump still hasn't explained what his investigators in Hawaii, which Trump said was 'absolutely unbelievable' about their birther investigation, and Rubio can't seem to be able to charge his personal expenses on HIS credit card.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:43 AM
 
15,366 posts, read 5,718,701 times
Reputation: 11512
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Although the OP decides for himself that he is impartial, which is contrary to his other posts, this thread is far from an "Impartial "Sizing-Up" of Hillary."

The OP heavily weighs the emails and the servers as evidence of "questions about her integrity" even though it hasn't been adjudicated that there was any wrong-doing. That's not impartial, that's bias.

Meanwhile, the OP dismisses as "finger pointing," when Mrs. Clinton discusses constant attacks upon her from the right-wing. One only needs to look at the posts on CD calling her "King Hillary" to know that her comments are justified. She has gone through decades of attacks from the right-wing on all kinds of absurd charges. Boosane, in post #5, repeats these conspiracy theories, which assumes anyone who has died in the last 25 years who had an association with the Clintons, was murdered.

The reality is that all the investigations against the Clintons; Travelgate, Whitewater, Benghazi, etc. have shown no wrongdoing by the Clintons.

What shows exceptional bias by the OP is calling Mrs. Clinton dishonest when Ben Carson is turning out to be a serial liar; Trump still hasn't explained what his investigators in Hawaii, which Trump said was 'absolutely unbelievable' about their birther investigation, and Rubio can't seem to be able to charge his personal expenses on HIS credit card.
Couldn't rep you, but good post. Post number five is a perfect summary of the hysterical (and I mean that in both senses of the word) cottage industry of right wing conspiracy theories that have sprung up around the Clintons in the last quarter of a century. And as you have noted, not a single one of them has turned up anything substantial.

Clinton conspiracy theorists are like birthers--they never run out of stupid things to believe in and repeat ad nauseam, and not a single one of their claims has any basis in reality. But like birthers, they don't reside in a universe where reality is a requirement.

What's up with right wingers and conspiracy theories, anyway?

Last edited by JAMS14; 11-09-2015 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,717 posts, read 11,567,690 times
Reputation: 5613
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
A Hillary presidency would not be a disaster, but it would not inspire.

If counter-balanced by opposition in Congress, mainly the House, we would have 2-8 more years of status quo, which is the most likely outcome.

So, continued decline for average income people on US soil in the face of continued globalization (albeit at a slower pace than in the 1995-2007 period), while those with significant assets will hold their own, maybe decline slightly in relative terms as the 1% further reinforces its position.

Good Luck!
I am not really sure what you are arguing here. But to add my two-cents, Democrats typically favor policies that increase the income of workers while Republicans favor policies that corporations and upper-income Americans prefer. Under a Republican president expect plans to cut upper-income taxes; reduce environmental and labor regulations and further deny that climate change is a global issue.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:11 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 2,693,153 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dole-McCain Republican View Post
I appreciate the OP's analysis.

As the OP indicated, Hillary may very well not be as liberal as she is currently portraying herself. However, the problem is that she has had to pander to the crazies given how far to the left the Democratic Party has moved during the Obama presidency. If Hillary were running as a center-left "New Democrat," she would not be handed the nomination on a silver platter; thus, her coronation comes at a steep price.

What scares me is that should she win, the extreme left of the Democratic Party will expect her to owe them big time. Honestly, it is understandable that they would feel that way, because of all she has had to do in order to be the likely nominee. However, because the crazies suspect that she is not a true believer, no amount of pandering on her part will be enough to satisfy them, and she will preside over a civil war within the Democratic Party during her one and only term.
I agree 100%. The "real" Hillary, who would most likely govern a lot like her husband, may not be too bad. The "new" Hillary, who is heavily influenced by the policies of people like Bernie Sanders, is unproven and a bit scary to be perfectly honest. Hillary could easily run as a moderate on her history, but she chooses to throw it away in favor of new policies that push her further left. That is a shame.
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