Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-13-2016, 06:29 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,416 posts, read 16,510,164 times
Reputation: 29595

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Perhaps you can point out where it states natural born citizen as did the Act of 1790 which was repealed?

Furthermore, from the State Dept, regarding children born abroad to US citizens:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

The statute that declared children born abroad to US citizen parents to be natural born citizens is no longer operative, and hasn't been operative since 1795.
What I quoted is current law. Sorry to bust your bubble.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-13-2016, 06:36 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,544 posts, read 44,252,621 times
Reputation: 13498
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
What I quoted is current law.
Current law doesn't legislate 'natural born citizen' or therefore POTUS eligibility status. Even the US State Dept acknowledges that, as I posted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,882 posts, read 34,379,372 times
Reputation: 14966
Default Rafael Edward Cruz Is Not Eligible To Be President

Thoughts?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...12d_story.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:27 AM
 
11,755 posts, read 7,055,430 times
Reputation: 8011
The real question is whether SCOTUS would involve themselves in this. It seems like a kind of political questions that SCOTUS has traditionally shied away from. But someone has to have the final word, and no one else can make the pronouncement so...

Mick
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:33 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,544 posts, read 44,252,621 times
Reputation: 13498
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
The real question is whether SCOTUS would involve themselves in this. It seems like a kind of political questions that SCOTUS has traditionally shied away from.
How is the Constitution and existing Federal Law "political?" It is what it is. The Constitution requires NBC status for POTUS eligibility. The only Federal Law stating that children born abroad to US citizens are considered to be NBCs was repealed in 1795 and such status for those so born was never reinstated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,682 posts, read 6,678,267 times
Reputation: 6588
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Again, as a citizen, Cruz is eligible for Congress. POTUS requires a natural born citizen.

As I just illustrated using documented historical facts, 'born a citizen' does not equal 'natural born citizen.'
Per your interpretation of history? Sorry, you don't get to make that determination. The consensus on the matter is that a natural born citizen is anyone who was a citizen upon birth. In fact that's what the words "natural born citizen" mean. It just means citizen by birth.

Other examples: A "natural born killer" means a killer from birth. A "natural born leader" means they're a leader from birth. Neither of these oft-used terms are referencing geographical location in any way. They are are talking about what you are at the moment of birth.

Do you honestly believe that any of the framers of the Constitution intended that, should one of them be serving oversees as ambassador, that any child born to them was not a natural born citizen? How ridiculous! Who in their right mind would penalize a newborn baby for their parent or parents' service to their country? That understanding must then expand to any American having children in a foreign nation -- and per the Constitution -- Congress sets the ground rules for how all of that works.

Regardless of what you believe, the term "natural born citizen" was never defined by geographical location of one's birth. The Constitution did not offer a definition of what they intended either, I've already covered the matter of what "natural born" means. The framers of the Constitution left the specifics up to Congress. Barack Obama is a terrible president and likely has the strongest case against him ... but at the end of the day he meets the requirements that were set forth by Congress when he was born. He was born to an American citizen while living on American soil. He's a natural born citizen. Cruz was born to a married couple, one of which was a US Citizen who met all the necessary requirements. He was born a citizen of the United States, so he's a natural born citizen.

Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. The Supreme Court hasn't ever even bothered to take one of these cases. That should tell you something. The SCOTUS feels natural born citizenship is already well defined. Birthers have been waging their little crusade, but they consistently lose in court. You're "proof" is just an opinion. An opinion that is being increasingly ignored by the people who actually make the decisions on these things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:36 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,544 posts, read 44,252,621 times
Reputation: 13498
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Per your interpretation of history?
No. Per actual historical events and documentation.

Like I said... The only Federal Law stating that children born abroad to US citizens are considered to be NBCs was repealed in 1795 and such status for those so born was never reinstated.

Furthermore, an attempt to define those such as Cruz as an NBC was made in 2004, and never made it out of Committee.

Quote:
SEC. 2. DEFINITION OF "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'"

(a) In General.--Congress finds and declares that the term "natural born Citizen'' in Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States means--

(1) any person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof; and

(2) any person born outside the United States-- (A) who derives citizenship at birth from a United States citizen parent or parents pursuant to an Act of Congress; or (B) who is adopted by 18 years of age by a United States citizen parent or parents who are otherwise eligible to transmit citizenship to a biological child pursuant to an Act of Congress.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/108th-...bill/2128/text

https://www.congress.gov/bill/108th-...verview=closed

Last edited by InformedConsent; 01-13-2016 at 10:49 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:40 AM
 
8,354 posts, read 7,298,933 times
Reputation: 8615
People, all you need to know about InformedConsent's legal expertise concerning United States citizenship is that she has stated that both my father and myself, both born in the U.S., are not citizens of the United States due to the fact that grandma was an illegal immigrant. Which is quite surprising, as both Dad and I hold current State department issued passports declaring us citizens of the United States.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:41 AM
 
26,543 posts, read 14,331,871 times
Reputation: 7401
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
The real question is whether SCOTUS would involve themselves in this.
my guess is that they will. i doubt it will be from either of the current challenges but i do think a case will be heard before the RNC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 10:49 AM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,435,269 times
Reputation: 22228
Because his mother was a US citizen, he is eligible.

Obama was born in Hawaii; however, if he wasn't, he still would have been eligible because his mother was a US citizen.

Nobody will be able to successfully argue that Cruz is not a natural born citizen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top