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So what do you think has been going on under Obama? From IBD - "After six-plus years of President Obama's big-spending, tax-raising policies, middle-class families have seen their incomes decline and more families have fallen into poverty, Census data show." Middle Class Lost Ground Under Obama's 'Middle Class Economics' - Investors.com
Hell, if you're a woman over 50, Obama has screwed you over thoroughly. From PBS - "If you’re a woman over the age of 50, finding work has statistically gotten harder since 2008." Why women over 50 can't find jobs | PBS NewsHour
I love it when you nitwits worry about Trump hurting the middle class when Obama already destroyed it.
What happens to "lifting yourself up by your own bootstrap"??????
Why don't you look at which states (ahem, red) that are having the most problems??
Do you blame the red state governors for failing his/her constituents?
Why don't you look at the high number of jobs that go unfilled because of lack of qualified workers??
So it's Obama's fault that companies are age discriminating against women??
It's Obama's fault that red states are doing poorly?
And what about all the middle class people who done fantastically over the eight years??!! Oh yeah, guess what they exist!!
I find it amusing that every four years before the election, Republicans suddenly start caring very much about the middle class.
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You do realize that right-leaning think tanks are all in on unlimited immigration because it suppresses wages? They also LOVE free trade agreements that have allowed them to build factories in other countries to pay even less for labor. And they've always sold it as good for the lower and middle classes because we can afford lower prices on things. The problem is we need the lower prices because we haven't had wage increases in generations.
I say we won't have a labor shortage because we have a lot of unemployed people.
The unemployment is just over 5%. That means there is not that many unemployed people.
I do agree illegal immigrants suppress wages.... for the low skill jobs. And I'd argue that if those are the jobs you're in the market for, you are part of the problem. Our country is transitioning into a high-skill, high -wage economy. If you're battling for the lowest tier jobs, then you are going to get bitten one way or another. Be it illegals, out sourcing, robotics, or whatever. If you are at that tier you need to take advantage of Obama's American Graduation Initiative and upgrade your skill. Obama is here to help people get better jobs and make more money, you just have to use that help.
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Every time I walk through the aisles at Walmart I wonder how many US jobs would be created even if half of the merchandise were made here. This is where Trump can have the quickest impact. Why on earth should a major American retailer carry items that virtually all are imported from China?
Which begs the question why any American retailer would be carrying Trump's products since they are all made overseas.
I do think he moved some here after deciding to run for President.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68
You do realize that right-leaning think tanks are all in on unlimited immigration because it suppresses wages? They also LOVE free trade agreements that have allowed them to build factories in other countries to pay even less for labor. And they've always sold it as good for the lower and middle classes because we can afford lower prices on things. The problem is we need the lower prices because we haven't had wage increases in generations.
I say we won't have a labor shortage because we have a lot of unemployed people.
Trump is a self-professed free trader. His 'tariff's' are going to be passed on to the middle class. He does not have all the answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockside
So what do you think has been going on under Obama? From IBD - "After six-plus years of President Obama's big-spending, tax-raising policies, middle-class families have seen their incomes decline and more families have fallen into poverty, Census data show." Middle Class Lost Ground Under Obama's 'Middle Class Economics' - Investors.com
Hell, if you're a woman over 50, Obama has screwed you over thoroughly. From PBS - "If you’re a woman over the age of 50, finding work has statistically gotten harder since 2008." Why women over 50 can't find jobs | PBS NewsHour
I love it when you nitwits worry about Trump hurting the middle class when Obama already destroyed it.
The middle class was destroyed LONG before Obama and what is Trump going to do to fix it? Build a wall, blah blah blah.
Fact is - all those jobs that LEFT during the recession aren't coming back ever. Companies have figured out how to do more with LESS and held down wages using the recession as a leverage point.
The unemployment is just over 5%. That means there is not that many unemployed people. .
Actually thats not really what it means..
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
I do agree illegal immigrants suppress wages.... for the low skill jobs. And I'd argue that if those are the jobs you're in the market for, you are part of the problem. Our country is transitioning into a high-skill, high -wage economy. If you're battling for the lowest tier jobs, then you are going to get bitten one way or another. Be it illegals, out sourcing, robotics, or whatever. If you are at that tier you need to take advantage of Obama's American Graduation Initiative and upgrade your skill. Obama is here to help people get better jobs and make more money, you just have to use that help.
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You cant force lower skilled lower paid companies to pay more when the demand isnt there due to suppressed wages.
its not the governments job to help people get better jobs, its the governments job to create an environment so YOU can get one. The government though is making it HARDER for people to succeed and move up the ladder by allowing illegals, which you just admitted, suppresses wages.
If you really think people should be "helped" then you should be demanding the government follow their own dam laws they passed so those who want to work their way up, can do so without being hindered by the very same government put into place to "help"...
The unemployment is just over 5%. That means there is not that many unemployed people.
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Numbers don't add up. According to you there are not very many unemployed people yet government figures show there are 300,000 NEW unemployment claims filed WEEKLY. That's 1.2 million new people a month.
He was asked many times about stagnant wages for the middle class and the only answer I heard was - well, we need better jobs. He's already on record as saying that American wages are 'too high' so stagnant wages don't seem to be a passionate issue for him.
If we put tariffs on incoming goods like we used to have, we'll start to rebuild and gain jobs that pay more. Have you looked at the trade imbalance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
Did you even read the sources you cited??? They don't at all back up what you're saying.
- The CNBC article argues there is no labor shortages given our current policy - meaning there is no labor shortages as long as the illegals are here. Once Donald kicked out the illegals, there WILL be a shortage!! If anything, this article fits perfectly into The Street's point.
- The Seattle Times article is saying the raise in cost may not be as much as we anticipate if all the illegals are gone, but it admits that the COST WILL GO UP. Anywhere from a few thousands on a house to a few cents for fruits and vegetable. Taken as a whole, those cost adds up. It fits The Street's point that $1.6 trillions will be chopped off the GDP. Also, this article is frighteningly ignorant of labor cost - if the salary of a drywaller goes up because you can't hire illegal to do the job, then other labor (like electrician, plumber, foundation guys) will go up accordingly too. So the real cost is much higher than what the obviously economically challenged writer imagines.
- The San Diego article - a very strange read, the writer only focuses on fruits and vegetable as if those the only things you will ever buy that involve illegal labor. Ok, I guess if you don't live in a house, don't use house keeping, don't eat meat, don't work in an office, don't buy products made here, etc; then you're golden.
Taken as a whole, none of your articles refute The Street's point.
Prices don't have to greatly increase to put a dent on the economy. In economy, a few % swing can greatly effect the overall picture. Many families are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to pay even a dollar more for food. Even just a 6% increase (as speculated in one of your articles) means 6% less towards savings and investment for the future and can put real hurt on the middle class.
That is far from adequate. None of your sources support what you said and at least one supports what I quoted.
We also used to have typewriters, black and white TVs, and our tax rate used to be much higher for the wealthy. Times change my man. What worked in the past don't always work in the present.
Those are huge assumptions, where is the data to support that? The Street directly contradicts that assumption, they say companies WILL NOT come back even if there is a tariff.
What if China retaliates by imposing more tariff of their own? Our business will even more screwed. You don't mess with 1.3 billion customers.
Sounds to me you don't actually have a good understanding of the world economy and is letting Trump's big talk polluted your reality.
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Your goal here is too protect the illegals and I want them gone. I am not sure what your dog is in this fight but I have a pretty good idea.
Keep in mind that included in the cost of goods is the tax, those same taxes that the illegals cost us. Illegals gone equal savings in taxes and lives.
You obviously don't remember or were elsewhere when OUR country was great. We learned about the economics that made OUR country great in high school in the United States, my country. There is no way any of us can educate you on what Trump is saying and we know your post is meant to support illegal immigration and you are wasting your time with that.
No, you aren't presenting a balanced look at this. Any article or poster that doesn't agree with you is considered not a creditable source. Do you honestly believe that most buy that? I live where the illegals feed from the public assistance teat while citizens see their services reduced. Don't even say they don't qualify because they fill Section 8 housing, use emergency medical services 3 times more than citizens and they do it on the taxpayer dime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
What happens to "lifting yourself up by your own bootstrap"??????
Why don't you look at which states (ahem, red) that are having the most problems??
Do you blame the red state governors for failing his/her constituents?
Why don't you look at the high number of jobs that go unfilled because of lack of qualified workers??
So it's Obama's fault that companies are age discriminating against women??
It's Obama's fault that red states are doing poorly?
And what about all the middle class people who done fantastically over the eight years??!! Oh yeah, guess what they exist!!
I find it amusing that every four years before the election, Republicans suddenly start caring very much about the middle class.
.
Why don't you post your links to all the information you spreading here. You obviously had difficulty understanding mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
The unemployment is just over 5%. That means there is not that many unemployed people.
I do agree illegal immigrants suppress wages.... for the low skill jobs. And I'd argue that if those are the jobs you're in the market for, you are part of the problem. Our country is transitioning into a high-skill, high -wage economy. If you're battling for the lowest tier jobs, then you are going to get bitten one way or another. Be it illegals, out sourcing, robotics, or whatever. If you are at that tier you need to take advantage of Obama's American Graduation Initiative and upgrade your skill. Obama is here to help people get better jobs and make more money, you just have to use that help.
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Green-eyes monsters? As we know, many make money off the illegals by exploiting them, the employers who belong in jail, the slum lords that milk them for rent off of dumps where others would not want to live.............
Deport the illegals ASAP as they are criminals. We have our own non-violent criminals in prison costing a lot of money so we parole them, saving a ton of money and creating a work force of OUR citizens. As we know, the prison system is one of the few industries that we have left and hanging on to imprisoning non-violent criminals in order to hold that system up, not good. So, let's start paroling non-violent criminals and create a work force. Works for me. That starts us off with over a million new workers and I know each year we have only about 5 jobs for a class of 200 coming out of the high school and the college grads can't get jobs either and our population is only 25,000 people. The illegals have infested nearly every occupation here now. I can't wait until the work place raids get into full swing again.
I just want the law enforced. We enforce our laws for US citizens and the illegals deserve no better.
Trump has a solid lead. It appears the majority of people feel he is on target. I hope all the illegals order their pinatas early for their going away party as I expect a rush on Trump pinatas. Trump 2016
The middle class will do much better once the illegals are gone. If you aren't watching them destroy a town with their 3rd world living habits and values, you just have no idea.
Last edited by AnywhereElse; 01-18-2016 at 01:30 PM..
The unemployment is just over 5%. That means there is not that many unemployed people.
I do agree illegal immigrants suppress wages.... for the low skill jobs. And I'd argue that if those are the jobs you're in the market for, you are part of the problem. Our country is transitioning into a high-skill, high -wage economy. If you're battling for the lowest tier jobs, then you are going to get bitten one way or another. Be it illegals, out sourcing, robotics, or whatever. If you are at that tier you need to take advantage of Obama's American Graduation Initiative and upgrade your skill. Obama is here to help people get better jobs and make more money, you just have to use that help.
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We have our own under-served population, and unemployment in the black community is double what it is for white people. And no one with any sense thinks we really only have 5% unemployment. That's just 5% who haven't given up looking for a job.
And please with that upgrading of our skills! Haven't you heard? These companies outsource low-skilled factory jobs to other countries, import STEM workers to take the higher skilled jobs, and import millions of low-skilled workers who compete with our own workers for the crumbs left to us, and the government assistance programs available for our under-served community. Not everyone was born with the intelligence to write code or be a doctor, and many of the ones who could have that talent are left out to dry because we aren't serving them with quality educational opportunities or on-the-job training.
The middle class would continue to fall behind under Donald Trump. We'd have a debt crisis because of all of Donald Trump's new spending and his $10.4 trillion tax scheme, his universal health care program would cripple our economy, and his protectionist trade policies would increase the cost of consumer goods and cause hardship for millions.
Which begs the question why any American retailer would be carrying Trump's products since they are all made overseas.
I do think he moved some here after deciding to run for President.
Trump is a self-professed free trader. His 'tariff's' are going to be passed on to the middle class. He does not have all the answers.
The middle class was destroyed LONG before Obama and what is Trump going to do to fix it? Build a wall, blah blah blah.
Fact is - all those jobs that LEFT during the recession aren't coming back ever. Companies have figured out how to do more with LESS and held down wages using the recession as a leverage point.
Trump will fix this how????
He may not be able to fix all of it, but I'm willing to see what would happen with a completely new direction. Hillary Clinton offers more of the same, and Bernie Sanders offers pie-in-the-sky fantasy that he'd never be able to persuade anyone in congress to pass. Ted Cruz is too conservative, as are all the rest of the GOP field. The only ones I'd be willing to vote for are Rand Paul or Donald Trump. Paul is going to drop out any day now. Trump may not do one single thing he promises, but he's got four years to try if he gets elected. If he doesn't get any of his proposals going, he'll be kicked out in 2020.
Numbers don't add up. According to you there are not very many unemployed people yet government figures show there are 300,000 NEW unemployment claims filed WEEKLY. That's 1.2 million new people a month.
You are assuming everyone who filed for unemployment stayed unemployed. Not true. The unemployed can get hired, or go to school, or take time off to travel around the world, etc; they drop off the unemployment rate. The unemployment rate is the number of people who actually are looking for jobs, and that is at a very healthy 5%+.
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