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So Bernie sanders is saying he is going to raise billions of dollars through taxes on Wall Street speculation - this guy has so little understanding of the real world economy, it's downright scary.
He is saying that the US taxpayers bailed out Wall Street, it's time for Wall Street to bail out the middle class. Now I assume he's talking about tarp funding - um how much did the US taxpayer lose? Oh that's right, they actually earned billions of dollars. Not to mention, the large banks that were 'bailed out' don't 'speculate' on stocks - they very rarely take long / short positions. Yes, perhaps it covers high frequency trading, but that provides liquidity to all investors, and stock / equity exposure had zero to do with banks financial distress during the crisis. I can guarantee the speculation tax will be passed on to higher fees for 401k, retail retirement accounts, etc.
Why are the auto makers not mentioned along with Wall Street for 'bail-outs.' Unlike with the banks, the US taxpayers lost tens of billions of dollars bailing out automakers. And there has been no regulation to address what drove the auto makers to insolvency - essentially unreasonable unions - and in fact, what plagued the automakers will cripple state and local governments over the next ten years - and that is unsustainable retirement guarantees / benefits to public sector workers.
So Bernie sanders is saying he is going to raise billions of dollars through taxes on Wall Street speculation - this guy has so little understanding of the real world economy, it's downright scary.
He is saying that the US taxpayers bailed out Wall Street, it's time for Wall Street to bail out the middle class. Now I assume he's talking about tarp funding - um how much did the US taxpayer lose? Oh that's right, they actually earned billions of dollars.
I've covered this many times....I believe I said the last time it wouldn't be long before it gets claimed again. No we did not make money on the bailouts and no it was not all paid back. I've documented this many times.
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Not to mention, the large banks that were 'bailed out' don't 'speculate' on stocks - they very rarely take long / short positions.
Yes they do. It's well documented in the movie "The Big Short". They were giddy to take these "bets".
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Yes, perhaps it covers high frequency trading, but that provides liquidity to all investors, and stock / equity exposure had zero to do with banks financial distress during the crisis. I can guarantee the speculation tax will be passed on to higher fees for 401k, retail retirement accounts, etc.
I'm betting you didn't complain when we were paying $4.00 a gallon for gas.
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Why are the auto makers not mentioned along with Wall Street for 'bail-outs.' Unlike with the banks, the US taxpayers lost tens of billions of dollars bailing out automakers. And there has been no regulation to address what drove the auto makers to insolvency - essentially unreasonable unions - and in fact, what plagued the automakers will cripple state and local governments over the next ten years - and that is unsustainable retirement guarantees / benefits to public sector workers.
It was more than the unions but is it your position that unless we address every single wrong that we shouldn't address any?
I think we are living in different universes. Bernie sanders plan is a tax on equity trading. Please, tell me how equity exposure / trading was the causation of the financial distress of banks. Please, I am absolutely all ears.
Dodd-Frank was passed in response to the banks endangering taxpayer money / the economy. The automaker bail out cost US taxpayers (believe GM cost $9.3bn) much much more than the banks. What has the gov't done to fix the causes of the automaker bailouts?
I suppose your bailout info is better than this https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
The banks repaid the funds, some of which was absolutely forced on them, and they sold their equity stake in AIG at a significant profit.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
I've covered this many times....I believe I said the last time it wouldn't be long before it gets claimed again. No we did not make money on the bailouts and no it was not all paid back. I've documented this many times.
Yes they do. It's well documented in the movie "The Big Short". They were giddy to take these "bets".
I'm betting you didn't complain when we were paying $4.00 a gallon for gas.
It was more than the unions but is it your position that unless we address every single wrong that we shouldn't address any?
I think we are living in different universes. Bernie sanders plan is a tax on equity trading. Please, tell me how equity exposure / trading was the causation of the financial distress of banks. Please, I am absolutely all ears.
It is a way to get some of the billions the tax payers provided for Wall Street back. That is what it is for. As plain as that.
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Dodd-Frank was passed in response to the banks endangering taxpayer money / the economy. The automaker bail out cost US taxpayers (believe GM cost $9.3bn) much much more than the banks. What has the gov't done to fix the causes of the automaker bailouts?
It's really not the place of the government to "fix" the auto manufacturers. It's not their place to bail them out either and they shouldn't have.
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I suppose your bailout info is better than this https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
The banks repaid the funds, some of which was absolutely forced on them, and they sold their equity stake in AIG at a significant profit.
Yes it is. The bail outs were paid back by other money the government/Fed gave the banks. Out one pocket and in the other. This doesn't even account for the billions in bad loans we took off their books and placed with F&F for the taxpayers to cover.
I must be honest - I set you up given your clear lack of understanding about the financial system. The Wall Street bail out you speak of is funds being provided to banks. This proposed tax on speculation is volume driven, and will mostly be beared by equity traders / investors. The banks that received bail out funds typically don't take long / short equity positions, rather provide role of broker or middle man - so that tax will merely be passed on to investors. It can affect high frequency trading, which has been scaled back and really provides liquidity - but this sector was not even close to being the cause of the financial crisis.
While the financial transaction tax does apply to trading bonds / derivatives, these do not trade at nearly the volumes of equities.
If you have an understanding of the economy / financial system, I think it's clear the tax won't be beared by the banks that received bail outs. Though the occupy socialist crowd throws all participating in capitalism into one bucket, so it doesn't matter who pays the tax since it won't be them.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
It is a way to get some of the billions the tax payers provided for Wall Street back. That is what it is for. As plain as that.
It's really not the place of the government to "fix" the auto manufacturers. It's not their place to bail them out either and they shouldn't have.
Yes it is. The bail outs were paid back by other money the government/Fed gave the banks. Out one pocket and in the other. This doesn't even account for the billions in bad loans we took off their books and placed with F&F for the taxpayers to cover.
I must be honest - I set you up given your clear lack of understanding about the financial system.
You did squat. You are just another in a long line that loves socialist welfare programs when it benefits you but get all upset if you are asked to share any of it.
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The Wall Street bail out you speak of is funds being provided to banks. This proposed tax on speculation is volume driven, and will mostly be beared by equity traders / investors. The banks that received bail out funds typically don't take long / short equity positions, rather provide role of broker or middle man - so that tax will merely be passed on to investors. It can affect high frequency trading, which has been scaled back and really provides liquidity - but this sector was not even close to being the cause of the financial crisis.
While the financial transaction tax does apply to trading bonds / derivatives, these do not trade at nearly the volumes of equities.
I already covered this but don't let it stop you from repeating it. At least you have moved from "don't" to "don't typically".
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If you have an understanding of the economy / financial system, I think it's clear the tax won't be beared by the banks that received bail outs. Though the occupy socialist crowd throws all participating in capitalism into one bucket, so it doesn't matter who pays the tax since it won't be them.
Banks are nothing more than brick buildings. No one is trying to go after brick buildings.
So Bernie sanders is saying he is going to raise billions of dollars through taxes on Wall Street speculation - this guy has so little understanding of the real world economy, it's downright scary.
How exactly will Sanders do that?
Will he wave a magic wand or use Executive Orders?
Maybe the Republican-controlled House will rubber stamp it?
Are you predicting a Democrat-controlled House & Senate if Bernie wins?
It is a way to get some of the billions the tax payers provided for Wall Street back. That is what it is for. As plain as that.
It's really not the place of the government to "fix" the auto manufacturers. It's not their place to bail them out either and they shouldn't have.
Yes it is. The bail outs were paid back by other money the government/Fed gave the banks. Out one pocket and in the other. This doesn't even account for the billions in bad loans we took off their books and placed with F&F for the taxpayers to cover.
Sander's plan does NOT limit it to HFT transactions. His tax is on all equity trading.
That means the mutual funds you buy in your 401K every month will be taxed.
The money loaned to banks that hasn't been paid back yet has nothing to do with you and I buying mutual funds and stocks. Yet that is what Bernie is proposing..that we pay that tax too.
Sander's plan does NOT limit it to HFT transactions. His tax is on all equity trading.
That means the mutual funds you buy in your 401K every month will be taxed.
Extremely minor to what I get back. I'm good with paying what will be next to nothing.
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The money loaned to banks that hasn't been paid back yet has nothing to do with you and I buying mutual funds and stocks. Yet that is what Bernie is proposing..that we pay that tax too.
You gained by the Fed artificially pumping up the market and as is often the case, you sleep with the devil there is a price to pay.
Individuals should be first class citizens, and corporations second class citizens.
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