Under Sanders, income and jobs would soar, economist says (terrorism, president, kids)

[NHartphotog]

Unfortunately, economists are about as able to predict the future as astrologists. More will get it wrong than get it right, and even if they are correct the first time, they are no more likely to be right the next time.

We simply don't understand economics AT ALL.

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

1. Nope- Sanders was right

Correct, Sanders was right. Not sure what the nope is supposed to mean.

2. What do you mean by "healthcare reform"? Keep in mind that everything has an actual cost. Nurses and providers need to be paid, facilities need to keep thier doors open, and meds need to be purchased. We just had a "reform" in the form of Obamacare, which incresed costs and is a disaster.

Yes, Obamacare was a complete disaster. Because it wasn't reform, it was a pay off to the insurance industry and pharmaceutical companies.

I've also noted that everyone is going to have to give up something. The drug companies are going to have to give up their record profits. Lawyers are going to have to take less. Individuals won't get $6 million because a sponge was left in them. Grandma might not get a new hip at 90.

3. educated work force?
a. that is great if jobs are available

That is true and we have already both agreed that it is Sanders that voted to protect our jobs.

b. we don't have enough US kids going into engineering and computer science

Then make the choices targeted. There are many things we can do.

c. flooding the nation with uneducated, unskilled illegals does nothing for the nation

Why do I have to point out over and over and over and over that Bernie has long supported securing our borders?

d. we need to stop granting J-1 visas when there are US citizens qualified to fill jobs

Bernie has long been against this also.

e. when US families do not value education, they can expect a lower standard of living

4. Trump supports ditching NAFTA, China trade policy, Pacific Rim, and reinstituting Glass-Steagle

I'm glad for that. I've noted many times that I love what Trump is doing the GOP establishment and I hope he wins the nomination but I can't stomach his "kill and torture them" rhetoric. I hope that is what it is. Oh yeah, again, Trump is also for universal health care just like Sanders.

Is it that you are willing to overlook that so we can kill and torture them?

5. You can't FORCE a company to stay here. You CAN provide incentives to attract new business and keep buisness here.

You can't force them to stay but you can make it financially unattractive to leave. We should be taxing the hell out of G.E. lightbulbs.

6. Sanders is soft on immigration. He is far from Trump on this issue.

Trump is lying. He is a smart guy. He knows there is no way to round up 10 million people and throw them out even if you wanted to. It would so clog up the courts that anyone else would never see inside of one.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by pknopp

I didn't answer as I have no clue what you are rambling about and didn't want to waste my time trying to find out.

It's all been covered many times. We can enact large savings with real and actual health care reform. The odd thing is, Trump is arguing the same thing. It's one area I agree with him on.

You support Trump, right?

So Sanders says something, you run around proclaiming its wonderful, I then repeat what he says, and all of a sudden you have no clue whats being talked about?

And then the very next paragraph, you claim we've covered it but I have not yet heard you tell us where the fk the money is coming from....

He is telling people their taxes are going to be raised $500, but you'd save $5,000 in insurance costs which represents a 90% CUT in the cost by transfering these services to the federal government.

Waiting to hear how the hell we're going to see a 90% cut.. No Trump is NOT saying the same thing, he's for UHC, which overall I dont think is a horrible idea, its the implementation and the LYING by Sanders being called into question since you cant tell me where the hell the money is coming from to pay for it.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by pknopp

I've been wrong about nothing. I'm not the one afraid to answer questions.

So tell me where the hell Sanders is coming up with the money to pay for his programs. You could confiscate all the wealth from the rich, it still isnt enough..

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by pghquest

So Sanders says something, you run around proclaiming its wonderful, I then repeat what he says, and all of a sudden you have no clue whats being talked about?

You got the statement only after I ignored you.

And then the very next paragraph, you claim we've covered it but I have not yet heard you tell us where the fk the money is coming from....

Much of it hopefully is going to come from the money we are wasting in the middle East but what you will not acknowledge is we are already spending this money and spending it poorly.

Someone without insurance goes to the E.R. now and the taxpayers pick up the tab. Its cheaper to go to an actual doctor or quick care. So rather than cost money it will save money.

Someone with no insurance never goes to get a check up and doesn't see a doctor until thier cancer has grown. It's a lot cheaper to catch it early.

He is telling people their taxes are going to be raised $500, but you'd save $5,000 in insurance costs which represents a 90% CUT in the cost by transfering these services to the federal government.

Again, we have no actual idea what the savings will be but they are real. Maybe in the end Sanders exaggerated. This mistake will be far less grievous than "Mission Accomplished".

Waiting to hear how the hell we're going to see a 90% cut.. No Trump is NOT saying the same thing, he's for UHC, which overall I dont think is a horrible idea, its the implementation and the LYING by Sanders being called into question since you cant tell me where the hell the money is coming from to pay for it.

I have no doubt that my answer will not stop your blathering on about this even after acknowledging you support the idea.

If Sanders can't come up with the money, Trump sure can't considering what his wars will cost.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by pknopp

You got the statement only after I ignored you.

You didnt ignore me, you said you seen unicorns as a response, as if you, yourself didnt believe he made such a statement. Guess what, he did..

Originally Posted by pknopp

Much of it hopefully is going to come from the money we are wasting in the middle East but what you will not acknowledge is we are already spending this money and spending it poorly.

Ahh, nothing beats fiscal policies like clicking your heals together hoping and praying..

Originally Posted by pknopp

Someone without insurance goes to the E.R. now and the taxpayers pick up the tab. Its cheaper to go to an actual doctor or quick care. So rather than cost money it will save money.

Complete ignorance. The taxpayers does NOT pickup the bill for the uninsured. Thats another lie pushed forward by the Democrats. If you think I'm wrong, please share with me how much the government spent last year on it..

Originally Posted by pknopp

Someone with no insurance never goes to get a check up and doesn't see a doctor until thier cancer has grown. It's a lot cheaper to catch it early.

That doesnt explain a 90% cut.. sorry, the math doesnt come close.. we spend $3.2 trillion a year a 90% cut would come out to $320 billion total expenditures, but we know the government already spends 3 times that.. HES LYING, and you are ignoring it..

Originally Posted by pknopp

Again, we have no actual idea what the savings will be but they are real. Maybe in the end Sanders exaggerated. This mistake will be far less grievous than "Mission Accomplished".

no they actually arent real. If they were real, government wouldnt already contract out health insurance to the private sector.

Originally Posted by pknopp

I have no doubt that my answer will not stop your blathering on about this even after acknowledging you support the idea.

Its not the goal in question, its the method, you dont seem to comprehend the difference..

Originally Posted by pknopp

If Sanders can't come up with the money, Trump sure can't considering what his wars will cost.

wars are temporary expenditures, healthcare isnt.. $1T deficits for healthcare wont go away, so yes, how its being paid for, does need to be explained.

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Ahh, nothing beats fiscal policies like clicking your heals together hoping and praying..

That might be a good point if not for the fact that Sanders needs no help to end the wars.

Complete ignorance. The taxpayers does NOT pickup the bill for the uninsured. Thats another lie pushed forward by the Democrats. If you think I'm wrong, please share with me how much the government spent last year on it..

This thread covers it probably the best. Unfortunately the vast majority now are arguing for or against Obamacare.

How Do Taxpayers Pay for the Uninsured? | eHow

That doesnt explain a 90% cut.. sorry, the math doesnt come close.. we spend $3.2 trillion a year a 90% cut would come out to $320 billion total expenditures, but we know the government already spends 3 times that.. HES LYING, and you are ignoring it..

Again, the statement is NOT what the government will save or how much less will be spent in total.

no they actually arent real. If they were real, government wouldnt already contract out health insurance to the private sector.

You ignore reality. Prevention medicine is far cheaper than reactive medicine. This is a basic. Is there anyone else here willing to argue that preventive medicine is not cheaper than reactive medicine?

Its not the goal in question, its the method, you dont seem to comprehend the difference..

We will note, you will not be able to present a method you would support because there is not one that wouldn't blow your entire anti-Sanders argument.

It will end just like the earlier poster that stated what they would do to decrease the debt and they were all things Sanders supported doing.

wars are temporary expenditures, healthcare isnt.. $1T deficits for healthcare wont go away, so yes, how its being paid for, does need to be explained.

15 years isn't seeming temporary and all the remaining GOP candidates are arguing for more never ending wars.

[Cheesesteak Cravings]

Originally Posted by texan2yankee

I don't respect trade unions at all. We lived and worked in NYC for decades. I encountered obnoxious, union protesters too many times, always men, blowing whistles for hours with a blown up rat eight feet tall outside the offending building because the contractor, owner, whoever didn't hired them to ever like unions.

Union workers' protests were de rigueur around my neighborhood. These men blocked the sidewalk when I and my pets tried to walk by and some protests annoyed me in my home with their loud whistles. Not a great way to garner supporters for union workers.

I hated those union representatives for their selfish behavior disrupting my life and entitled attitude to a job they didn't get which reinforced my view of unions.

The guys you're talking about, are what we in the unions like to call "@ssholes". I'm not going to argue anything you've said. I was as disgusted at those antics before I was union, and am just as disgusted at them now. There is a silent majority among the union populace, I was once among them. I've begun to be more outspoken about toxic attitudes like that because it hurts us, and undermines the greater mission to improve the lives of working people. And not all unions are the same, even within the same national union, not all locals are the same.

I highly doubt that the Austin electrician local acts anything like the ones in New York and Philadelphia, I know for sure that Dallas local doesn't.

Anyway, I'm not going to try to change your opinion on unions. Not with words anyway. One of my personal missions is to reform my own local. I'll keep what you've said in mind throughout my efforts.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by pknopp

That might be a good point if not for the fact that Sanders needs no help to end the wars.

Sanders has absolutely no idea what other nations, nor terrorists groups are going to do, and neither do you.. To just preclude we're going to "stop", defending our-self is asinine.

Originally Posted by pknopp

This thread covers it probably the best. Unfortunately the vast majority now are arguing for or against Obamacare.

How Do Taxpayers Pay for the Uninsured? | eHow

haha.. so lets see if I get this straight.. we should pass universal healthcare in order to reduce things like public medical assistance?

There is a huge flaw with that argument, hopefully you're smart enough to figure that out.

Originally Posted by pknopp

Again, the statement is NOT what the government will save or how much less will be spent in total.

Sure it is.. Sanders said you'll pay $500 more, but save $5,000..

HOW THE HELL IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?

Originally Posted by pknopp

You ignore reality. Prevention medicine is far cheaper than reactive medicine. This is a basic. Is there anyone else here willing to argue that preventive medicine is not cheaper than reactive medicine?

I dont think anyone has disputed that.. If you believe that things like Cancer is going to go away just because government is paying healthcare costs, youre a fool..

We've heard that argument before, it was used to pass ACA, costs went UP.. not down

Originally Posted by pknopp

We will note, you will not be able to present a method you would support because there is not one that wouldn't blow your entire anti-Sanders argument.

Actually I've stated it NUMEROUS times... It begins with merging medicare and medicaid, PAYING for it.. and then expanding the income limits gradually until it covers america, as ITS PAID FOR...

Originally Posted by pknopp

It will end just like the earlier poster that stated what they would do to decrease the debt and they were all things Sanders supported doing.

Except his plan DOES NOT DO THAT.. He's pulling figures out of his ass that make absolutely NO SENSE.. and you're repeating them as gospel..

One of them again is the claim that people will raise taxes by $500 but see costs cut by $5,000.. BULL ****

Originally Posted by pknopp

15 years isn't seeming temporary and all the remaining GOP candidates are arguing for more never ending wars.

If Sanders can stop them at his will, its temporary..

[pknopp]

There is no talking to someone that takes your first position. Attacking countries that have not done a thing to us while paying for none of it and bitching when its noted it indeed does have to be paid for.