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Old 02-14-2016, 06:22 AM
 
34,240 posts, read 41,245,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimuni View Post
If a democrat win this presidency, this nation is screwed.
If a republican wins this Presidency the nation is screwed..
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:38 AM
 
5,818 posts, read 13,271,430 times
Reputation: 9276
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68551 View Post
There is something to be said for making your own way in life.

Many may not agree but I believe GIVING kids stuff does not teach them anything.

My problem with Bernie is his give a-ways to our nations young people. Forcing minimum wage to $15 an hour without working your way up to it, giving free college like it is a right, pushing for prolonged family leave all leave negative impacts not apparent to our society in the short term.

Forcing minimum wage makes the mom & pop stores struggle and doesn't inspire youth to move up the corporate ladder. In order to pay $15 an hour stores will raise prices to afford the wage hike. So everything you buy will suddenly become more expensive.

Free college punishes the taxpayer when they are already paying property taxes to pay for the schools & again does not teach our youth to do well in school to obtain the grades to go to the college of their choice. Even couples, such as my husband and I who don't have children and are now retired and have paid school taxes our whole lives are now going to have to fund their college too when we paid for our own without our parents help.

Prolonged family leave again punishes employees & employer who are forced to find someone to fill in for the on leave person and take up the slack for someone being on paid leave.

Just as the poor in big cities vote Democrat to obtain more benefits in the form of freebees, we are teaching our youth to do the same to avoid the natural culling of the lazy uninspired in favor of the blossoming entrepreneurs who work hard to make a life for themselves.

I may be of a different era than most of you but there is much to be said of the pride that comes from working your way up in life.

Plus....I have never met a Veteran who enlisted to fight for Socialism......
Excellent post. I agree totally with you. Sanders has never done anything but take up space as a Senator and his proposals are not only ridiculous but he has no way to financially implement them. Many of the young people today have been hovered over by parents that have not taught them responsibility for themselves, tolerance of others or respect. They have credit card debt which we never had because we learned if we didn't have the money, we didn't buy it. If we had to work three jobs that's what we did to get ahead. No job was beneath us and many of us enlisted in the military, did 20 years and another 20 in the civilian world.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Midwest
1,469 posts, read 855,567 times
Reputation: 2339
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Before you would even get the "free pass" the college will still have to accept you. What you think all of a sudden they will accept everyone, and even if they could, probably 2/3 of students would fail and drop out anyway. I doubt they would lower standards because then they would lose their credibility, and there still will be private schools, which btw are even more excpensive than today's so called "public" schools. Also the schools will have fixed budgets, so they won't be able to waste their money. I also think that today's k-12 schooling is abismal and yes they seem to be lowering standards, but that's only because of the no child left behind emplamented by George W Bush.

I also agree that college is not for everyone and I think it's stupid to tell every kid in school that all their problems will be solved if they go to college and get a degree. But the problem is that all the other jobs have been shipped away, and Bernie along with Trump are one of the few people againts these disatorous trade agreements such as NAFTA. A lot of the things that Bernie wants to do are things that FDR and JFK talked about, just listen to some of their speeches, and Bernies and you will see that they are for the same thing.

I respectfully disagree....The fact that Sanders is not giving details about how the free college program will work tells me that they will accept "everyone" and dumb down the standards. A college diploma will mean no more than a high school degree. Masters Degrees & PHD's will be the new college degree. I will not live long enough to have to pay the bulk of it but YOUR GENERATION will!! You are making my point without even realizing it. If as you say 2/3 will drop out that is a total waste of taxpayer money... I have paid into property school tax all of my adult life, I am not happy about also having to fund college.

Will all current student loans be forgiven & also what about people like myself who paid our own way through college. Will return of our investment be retroactive? Of course not.....Having a college degree opened doors to financial freedom that allowed us to more than pay off the debt with greater job earnings. Our pride of achievement in life cannot be duplicated with Sanders plan. Its a free gimme that only fosters mediocrity at taxpayers expense.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:03 AM
 
2,667 posts, read 960,755 times
Reputation: 3146
At one point in our history community colleges offered free or very low tuition. I would be for that once again.
Many of us worked jobs while we were in college to help pay for it, but the reality is that college costs have increased dramatically while part time job wages have not. So just saying that kids now a days should just work for it as we did it's not really understanding the current costs of going to college.
That plus the abuse of college loans it's ridiculous. Why are college loans one of the few loans that can't be erased by bankruptcy? I'm all for providing loans at lower percentages
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:08 AM
 
12,707 posts, read 4,594,370 times
Reputation: 5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68551 View Post
I respectfully disagree....The fact that Sanders is not giving details about how the free college program will work tells me that they will accept "everyone" and dumb down the standards. A college diploma will mean no more than a high school degree. Masters Degrees & PHD's will be the new college degree. I will not live long enough to have to pay the bulk of it but YOUR GENERATION will!! You are making my point without even realizing it. If as you say 2/3 will drop out that is a total waste of taxpayer money... I have paid into property school tax all of my adult life, I am not happy about also having to fund college.

Will all current student loans be forgiven & also what about people like myself who paid our own way through college. Will return of our investment be retroactive? Of course not.....Having a college degree opened doors to financial freedom that allowed us to more than pay off the debt with greater job earnings. Our pride of achievement in life cannot be duplicated with Sanders plan. Its a free gimme that only fosters mediocrity at taxpayers expense.
Keep in mind, many of the most successful countries in the world have tuition free college and universities. For America, it is an investment in the future as America is lagging behind other countries in this regard.In fact, it’s what many of our colleges and universities used to do.

Quote:
The University of California system offered free tuition at its schools until the 1980s. In 1965, average tuition at a four-year public university was just $243 and many of the best colleges – including the City University of New York – did not charge any tuition at all.
Tuition free public colleges and universities will mean that anyone can go to college and university if they show the ability in high school, regardless of the income and background of their parents. Sons and daughters of working class folks know they will be able to get a good 4-year education, while rich kids who dont take school seriously might have to choose a private university with high tution which will admit them. It will make it more meritocratic than today where class background matter much more.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/downlo...d/?inline=file
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:10 AM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Sanders could be Hitler and I would still vote for him if he will boot the Corporate Globalists out of DC unless you have another person in mind?
Sanders has been in DC for 25 years. Has any of what you wanted happened? No. Sanders is ineffectual.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Midwest
1,469 posts, read 855,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Sportsfan View Post
At one point in our history community colleges offered free or very low tuition. I would be for that once again.
Many of us worked jobs while we were in college to help pay for it, but the reality is that college costs have increased dramatically while part time job wages have not. So just saying that kids now a days should just work for it as we did it's not really understanding the current costs of going to college.
That plus the abuse of college loans it's ridiculous. Why are college loans one of the few loans that can't be erased by bankruptcy? I'm all for providing loans at lower percentages

Just because you declare bankruptcy you still keep the degree that allows you to pay the loan back so why should it be forgiven.

Anyone can go to a community college in their state at a reduced cost and if they choose their courses based on which ones will transfer to the eventual college of their choice they can save a substantial amount of money.

College is expensive and always has been but the potential for income increases in proportion to education level. This allows payoff of student loans which is much preferable to making a lesser wage for a lifetime.

You either pay off YOUR OWN loan ONCE or if you elect Sanders you will be paying for "everyone" (even the undeserving) for the rest of your life.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:13 AM
 
12,707 posts, read 4,594,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sanders has been in DC for 25 years. Has any of what you wanted happened? No. Sanders is ineffectual.
Thats not true.
Quote:
“I'm a progressive, but I'm a progressive who likes to get things done,” Hillary Clinton said at the first Democratic debate, in response to a question from moderator Anderson Cooper about whether she defines herself as a moderate or a progressive. Not only has Sanders gotten a lot more things done than Clinton did in her own short legislative career, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, both big and small, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.

Quote:
The Amendment King

Congress is not known to be a progressive institution lately, to say the least. Over the past few decades, the House of Representatives was only controlled by the Democrats from 2007 to 2010, and a flood of corporate money has quieted the once-powerful progressive movement that passed legislation moving the country forward between the New Deal era and the Great Society. Yet, as difficult as it may be to believe, a socialist from Vermont is one of its most accomplished members.

Bernie Sanders was first elected to the House of Representatives in 1990, and many immediately doubted his efficacy. “It is virtually impossible for an independent to be effective in the House,” said then-Congressman Bill Richardson (D-NM). “As an independent you are kind of a homeless waif.” Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), today an outspoken advocate for Hillary Clinton, said Bernie's “holier-than-thou attitude—saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else—really undercuts his effectiveness.”

As if things didn't look bad enough, in 1994 the Republicans swept into power in the House of Representatives, dashing the hopes of many that Congress could do anything progressive whatsoever. But Sanders was not content with tilting at windmills. He didn't want to just take a stand, he wanted to pass legislation that improved the United States of America. He found his vehicle in legislative amendments.

Amendments in the House of Representatives are often seen as secondary vehicles to legislation that individual members sponsor, but they are an important way to move resources and build bipartisan coalitions to change the direction of the law. Despite the fact that the most right-wing Republicans in a generation controlled the House of Representatives between 1994 and 2006, the member who passed the most amendments during that time was not a right-winger like Bob Barr or John Boehner. The amendment king was, instead, Bernie Sanders.

Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:

Corporate Crime Accountability (February 1995): A Sanders amendment to the Victims Justice Act of 1995 required “offenders who are convicted of fraud and other white-collar crimes to give notice to victims and other persons in cases where there are multiple victims eligible to receive restitution.”

Saving Money, for Colleges and Taxpayers (April 1998): In an amendment to H.R. 6, the Higher Education Amendments of 1998, Sanders made a change to the law that allowed the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education to make competitive grants available to colleges and universities that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services.

Holding IRS Accountable, Protecting Pensions (July 2002): Sanders' amendment to the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act of 2003 stopped the IRS from being able to use funds that “violate current pension age discrimination laws.” Although he faced stiff GOP opposition, his amendment still succeeded along a 308 to 121 vote.

Expanding Free Health Care (November 2001): You wouldn't think Republicans would agree to an expansion of funds for community health centers, which provide some free services. But Sanders was able to win a $100 million increase in funding with an amendment.

Getting Tough On Child Labor (July 2001): A Sanders amendment to the general appropriations bill prohibited the importation of goods made with child labor.

Increasing Funding for Heating for the Poor (September 2004): Sanders won a $22 million increase for the low-income home energy assistance program and related weatherization assistance program.

Fighting Corporate Welfare and Protecting Against Nuclear Disasters (June 2005): A Sanders amendment brought together a bipartisan coalition that outnumbered a bipartisan coalition on the other side to successfully prohibit the Export-Import Bank from providing loans for nuclear projects in China.

Once Sanders made it to the Senate in 2006, his ability to use amendments to advance a progressive agenda was empowered. Here are some of the amendments he passed in the Senate:

Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007): A Sanders amendment made a change to the law so at least 30 percent of the hot water demand in newer federal buildings is provided through solar water heaters.

Protecting Our Troops (October 2007): Sanders used an amendment to win $10 million for operation and maintenance of the Army National Guard, which had been stretched thin and overextended by the war in Iraq.

Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009): A Sanders amendment required the banking bailout to utilize stricter H-1B hiring standards to ensure bailout funds weren't used to displace American workers.

Helping Veterans' Kids (July 2009): A Sanders amendment required the Comptroller General to put together comprehensive reporting on financial assistance for child care available to parents in the Armed Forces.

Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012): A Sanders amendment required “public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors” – an important step toward transparency that revealed the corruption of the revolving door in action.

Support for Treating Autism in Military Health Care: Sanders worked with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) to pass an amendment by a vote of 66-29 ensuring that the military's TRICARE system would be able to treat autism.
Bernie Gets It Done: Sanders' Record of Pushing Through Major Reforms Will Surprise You | Alternet
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:17 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,691 posts, read 16,462,697 times
Reputation: 22305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
As a financially privileged student who wants to become a doctor, I would not personally benefit by voting for Mr. Sanders. But voting for Mr. Sanders is my way of giving a big middle finger to the cruel way the government has been treating the poor and beating up other countries for profit. I can assure you that it has nothing to do with getting freebies. I just want the cruelty to end.

I don't mean to attack anyone, BTW, I'm just saying that Bernie supporters might not be voting for him for the reason you may think we are.
We get it .

Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
For one thing, the word is "phenomenon"...
Thank you - that drove me insane. Bottom line - college would not be 'free'. Only tuition would be paid for under Bernie's plan. Not campus fees, dorm fees, etc.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:57 AM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Thats not true.
Really? Not one single item on Bernie's platform is currently in force.

Bernie = 25 years of nothing.
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