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Old 03-05-2016, 10:45 PM
Status: "Not quite my tempo" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Bran's tree
10,980 posts, read 4,832,310 times
Reputation: 12363

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddingPops View Post
Apparently in liberal la la land, the belief is that liberal protestors should have a special section at conservative campaign rallies all to themselves, where they can shout, scream, and interrupt the proceedings to their hearts content. Notice that rarely do you ever see conservative protestors at the scene of a Clinton or Bernie rally. It's always those "open minded" liberals who feel the urge to drown out any and all political views that are not in line with their own.
Nobody is condoning disruptive acts. What is not being condoned is responding with mob violence rather than simply having security remove them from the venue.

 
Old 03-05-2016, 10:51 PM
 
998 posts, read 545,552 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustermannBB View Post
This has nothing to do with liberals vs conservatives (Why is everything so often reduced to this?) but is only about the fact that supporters at Trump rallies physically ATTACKING protesters. Even if one would think that protesters should not be there in the first place, that still should not excuse that type of behavior! As so often but 2 WRONGS DON"t MAKE A RIGHT! Something which is overlooked far far too often in discussions as such.
People seem to be so set in their support of their chosen candidate that they willing to forgive anything or try to rationalize it or just point the finger in another direction and say "But he started it" or "But he did it, too" etc..
That goes for both sides of course.

Physical assault is not being non-pc is not justifiable because it was done to somebody who you don't agree with or like. The escorting out and removal of people disturbing these events should be done by the security and only by them!
First of all, if you actually watch a Trump rally (like the one in LA today) you would realize that his speeches are interrupted several times by various protestors, sometimes organized groups and sometimes lone actors. This is an issue that he has to contend with on a very frequent basis.. much more often than other candidates. Second, the type of people who crash a stump speech are mentally disturbed people with a lot of personal problems and tend to have serious issues and mistrust of authority figures. So if they are pushed a little roughly to get them on their feet and moving out the door, you can be sure that a reporter will be waiting outside to get their account of the events and that push will now turn into a "violent assault".

So my advice to you. Watch for yourself and don't take media reports and the protestor's account of events for face value just because you dislike Trump. Second, and this isn't directed to you specifically but is just general common sense wisdom, if you disagree with a politician, that's fine. And you're free to exercise your first amendment rights. But keep it outside the venue and do it respectfully. If you walk into a gathering of thousands of people with the mission of agitating the crowd, then don't be shocked when it doesn't turn out well for you. I can assure you that if a Trump supporter walked into a Bernie event and threw a tantrum like Trump sees 10+ times at every.single.one of his rallies, the Trump supporter would either be assaulted or have his property vandalized by some enthusiastic Bernie supporters.
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:00 PM
 
1,858 posts, read 818,400 times
Reputation: 1545
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddingPops View Post
First of all, if you actually watch a Trump rally (like the one in LA today) you would realize that his speeches are interrupted several times by various protestors, sometimes organized groups and sometimes lone actors. This is an issue that he has to contend with on a very frequent basis.. much more often than other candidates. Second, the type of people who crash a stump speech are mentally disturbed people with a lot of personal problems and tend to have serious issues and mistrust of authority figures. So if they are pushed a little roughly to get them on their feet and moving out the door, you can be sure that a reporter will be waiting outside to get their account of the events and that push will now turn into a "violent assault".

So my advice to you. Watch for yourself and don't take media reports and the protestor's account of events for face value just because you dislike Trump. Second, and this isn't directed to you specifically but it just general common sense wisdom, if you disagree with a politician, that's fine. And you're free to exercise your first amendment rights. But keep it outside the venue and do it respectfully. If you walk into a gathering of thousands of people with the mission of agitating the crowd, then don't be shocked when it doesn't turn out well for you. I can assure you that if a Trump supporter walked into a Bernie event and threw a tantrum like Trump sees 10+ times at every.single.one of his rallies, the Trump supporter would either be assaulted or have his property vandalized by some enthusiastic Bernie supporters.
There it is. Trying to rationalize it.........
My advice to you then is, don't try to downplay things just because you like Trump and ask yourself what is acceptable behavior. Also basically calling every person who dares and disrupts Trumps rallies mentally disturbed betrays your bias. I guess by saying that it helps even more to rationalize physical attacks against them. After all they were and are dangerous right?
And speaking of common sense wisdom, as I have already mentioned, no ones argues that people who disrupt a politician who is having a speech should be dealt with but they should be dealt with by security and should not be physically attacked, especially not by the crowd. One can twist that however one wants but sorry that is simply not acceptable or to be downplayed.
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:05 PM
 
998 posts, read 545,552 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
Nobody is condoning disruptive acts. What is not being condoned is responding with mob violence rather than simply having security remove them from the venue.
Every video I have of protestors at Trump events on Twitter and elsewhere (a lot) the protestors are escorted rather gently out the room by secret service, police, or other hired security personnel. As I stated in my post above, these protestors tend to be some seriously disturbed individuals and well often report that they were physically assaulted once they step outside because they seek sympathy and attention. That's not to say that nobody at any Trump event has ever not had a hand laid on him or her, but the man holds how many rallies per day? I don't think he ever sleeps. But that brings me to my next point.

You've got to have some common sense here. If you walk into a gathering of thousands of people who are assembled for one purpose specifically to agitate them, then I think you should count your blessings to make it out there door with no broken bones. This goes for a Trump rally, a Bernie rally, a Clinton rally, or whoever, whenever. You just need to have some judgement about these things and consider human nature. I mean, if somebody walked into a bear exhibit at the zoo with a jar of honey, would you really fault the bear for the outcome?
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:06 PM
 
16,708 posts, read 8,541,588 times
Reputation: 9555
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddingPops View Post
.

So my advice to you. Watch for yourself and don't take media reports and the protestor's account of events for face value just because you dislike Trump.
Seriously people, take the advice.
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:09 PM
 
998 posts, read 545,552 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustermannBB View Post
There it is. Trying to rationalize it.........
My advice to you then is, don't try to downplay things just because you like Trump and ask yourself what is acceptable behavior. Also basically calling every person who dares and disrupts Trumps rallies mentally disturbed betrays your bias. I guess by saying that it helps even more to rationalize physical attacks against them. After all they were and are dangerous right?
And speaking of common sense wisdom, as I have already mentioned, no ones argues that people who disrupt a politician who is having a speech should be dealt with but they should be dealt with by security and should not be physically attacked, especially not by the crowd. One can twist that however one wants but sorry that is simply not acceptable or to be downplayed.
I think Trump is an interesting candidate and I really credit him with stirring the pot of American politics in a manner which has not been done in a long time. On strictly a policy basis, I'm not a big supporter but I can at least respect him in a sense, much as I respect several of the candidates. But look, if you call being pushed out the door a "physical assault" then we're just going to have to recognize that we have different views on what constitutes violence.
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:12 PM
Status: "Not quite my tempo" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Bran's tree
10,980 posts, read 4,832,310 times
Reputation: 12363
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddingPops View Post
Every video I have of protestors at Trump events on Twitter and elsewhere (a lot) the protestors are escorted rather gently out the room by secret service, police, or other hired security personnel. As I stated in my post above, these protestors tend to be some seriously disturbed individuals and well often report that they were physically assaulted once they step outside because they seek sympathy and attention. That's not to say that nobody at any Trump event has ever not had a hand laid on him or her, but the man holds how many rallies per day? I don't think he ever sleeps. But that brings me to my next point.

You've got to have some common sense here. If you walk into a gathering of thousands of people who are assembled for one purpose specifically to agitate them, then I think you should count your blessings to make it out there door with no broken bones. This goes for a Trump rally, a Bernie rally, a Clinton rally, or whoever, whenever. You just need to have some judgement about these things and consider human nature. I mean, if somebody walked into a bear exhibit at the zoo with a jar of honey, would you really fault the bear for the outcome?
Of course not. But unlike bears, humans can exercise self-control.

However, I do agree that someone who goes into a rally to disrupt it (which puts them just as much in the wrong) shouldn't count on the attendees to have the self-control that they should have.
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:13 PM
 
16,708 posts, read 8,541,588 times
Reputation: 9555
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddingPops View Post
I think Trump is an interesting candidate and I really credit him with stirring the pot of American politics in a manner which has not been done in a long time. On strictly a policy basis, I'm not a big supporter but I can at least respect him in a sense, much as I respect several of the candidates. But look, if you call being pushed out the door a "physical assault" then we're just going to have to recognize that we have different views on what constitutes violence.
they're gonna **** and moan until the end
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:18 PM
 
998 posts, read 545,552 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
Of course not. But unlike bears, humans can exercise self-control.

However, I do agree that someone who goes into a rally to disrupt it shouldn't count on the attendees to have the self-control that they should have.
Exactly my point. And given the sheer volume of protestors that show up at Trump rallies, I believe the fact that none have been injured more than a couple minor bruises actually attests to the character of many Trump supporters, which is contrary to the picture much of the media is trying to paint of them. Any political rally in general, or a rally of any nature which gathers people for emotional reasons... it is just not wise (from a personal well being standpoint) to walk in with the intent of antagonizing. You are right that people should exercise self control, but any situation with a mass crowd of people, you need to consider your personal safety.. that is just human nature and affects all human beings regardless of political affiliation.
 
Old 03-05-2016, 11:21 PM
 
1,858 posts, read 818,400 times
Reputation: 1545
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddingPops View Post
I think Trump is an interesting candidate and I really credit him with stirring the pot of American politics in a manner which has not been done in a long time. On strictly a policy basis, I'm not a big supporter but I can at least respect him in a sense, much as I respect several of the candidates. But look, if you call being pushed out the door a "physical assault" then we're just going to have to recognize that we have different views on what constitutes violence.
Stirring the pot to does not make him a viable candidate IMHO. Also I question his genuineness.
And yes being violently dragged from the back to the point that you fall, I do call physical assault. At the very least it is not just being pushed out the door. I'd imagine if I would to grab you and drag around the floor you would have some very choice words for me or perhaps even more and would respond in kind.
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