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Old 03-07-2016, 05:18 AM
 
8,838 posts, read 4,738,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post


So you admit that it's the same for Hillary Clinton? In other words, she would have been criticized whichever way she voted?

How did the poor rescue Wall Street? Explain. Were taxes increased for the elderly and the poor? I doubt if any of us are thrilled about donating $700 billion to greedy bankers, but maybe it was a necessary evil to keep our country from falling into a deep depression. It's taken over 7 years to slowly crawl out of an economic collapse that wasn't even close to what might have happened. What we need now more than ever are policies to insure the American people that it never happens again which is why we need a Democrat in the White House.
True, but Hillary was against the policies that would of prevented this economic crisis and bank bailout. Now Hillary is changing her stance where Bernie remains the same.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 492,962 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
Look, it's obvious you don't like Hillary Clinton, so why argue? For every issue you mentioned, I can name bills Bernie Sanders voted for/against, such as his vote against the Brady Bill, his vote against Immigration Reform, etc. etc. Regarding the Crime Bill you mentioned, as she pointed out tonight, there were some negative results and some very positive results. For example:

"The 1994 bill was a watershed, marking the first comprehensive federal legislative package designed to end violence against women. It was also a triumph for women’s groups that lobbied hard to persuade Congress to legislate federal protections for women on the grounds that states were failing in their efforts to address this violence."

SOURCE
But she actively spoke in favor of the bad parts of the crime bill, using language like "superpredators." Sanders lobbied very hard to get those parts of the bill taken out. Did you watch the debate? That point was made. In addition, Hillary gets big money from the for-profit prison companies, and she had the chutzpah in the debate to say that she was against for-profit prisons.

You're right. I don't like Hillary, for lies like that. I think with as many years in the public arena as she has, you are bound to make some decisions that people don't like. But we're not talking about little things here. We are talking about huge failings in her personal and political philosophy. I worked for an environmental group when NAFTA was discussed. We are all up to speed on it and against it in short order. It was a terrible idea from the get-go, that was apparent to absolutely everybody who researched the bill, yet she continued to justify it many years after the fact. Ditto for the crime bill. The mandatory sentences which she spoke in favor of were pandering to the right wing, and I'm supposed to praise Hillary for that? And what about the Iraq War? There wasn't enough information out to oppose that? Oh, right. "Everybody did it." That's the attitude I want in a leader. If she voted for that war, which killed more than a million people, because she was doing the mental math and calculated that a "Yes" vote would help her win the presidency instead of taking a moral stand against it, well, what can you say? That's about as shameless as it gets.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:42 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,147 posts, read 16,652,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunD1987 View Post
True, but Hillary was against the policies that would of prevented this economic crisis and bank bailout. Now Hillary is changing her stance where Bernie remains the same.
You know, I totally get that Bernie hates Wall Street and YES - blowing it up in 2008 sure would have felt good but many of us 'non-billionaires' would have suffered greatly. The middle class also has Wall Street investments of their own; their 401k's, retirement plans, etc.


So - I got no problem that we bailed out Wall Street in 2008. We bailed ourselves out right along with it.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 492,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
You know, I totally get that Bernie hates Wall Street and YES - blowing it up in 2008 sure would have felt good but many of us 'non-billionaires' would have suffered greatly. The middle class also has Wall Street investments of their own; their 401k's, retirement plans, etc.


So - I got no problem that we bailed out Wall Street in 2008. We bailed ourselves out right along with it.
Incorrect. People were kicked out of their houses after the bailout. They would not have been kicked out of their houses if Washington had paid off their mortgages instead of bailing out Wall Street. It was a gift to the fat cats. Wall Street didn't even make money available for new mortgages after the bailout!
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:49 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,147 posts, read 16,652,386 times
Reputation: 22668
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Incorrect. People were kicked out of their houses after the bailout. They would not have been kicked out of their houses if Washington had paid off their mortgages instead of bailing out Wall Street. It was a gift to the fat cats. Wall Street didn't even make money available for new mortgages after the bailout!
What about their investments? You know - that thing where your money makes money? Where people have been putting their money in for 20-30 years? Not just rich people; the middle class that you purport to love so much.


Let's just not talk about mortgages, ok? There is more to it than that.


The failure to bail out Wall Street would have impact 200 countries other than ours and caused a depression the likes of what my generation has never seen.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 492,962 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
What about their investments? You know - that thing where your money makes money? Where people have been putting their money in for 20-30 years? Not just rich people; the middle class that you purport to love so much.


Let's just not talk about mortgages, ok? There is more to it than that.
Paying off people's mortgages is bailing out Wall Street anyway. It was a mortgage crisis. Wall Street was holding the bad debt. Get it now? But of course, the little people don't get a break in Hillary's Goldman Sachs world, except theoretically, on the campaign trail.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,682,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Incorrect. People were kicked out of their houses after the bailout. They would not have been kicked out of their houses if Washington had paid off their mortgages instead of bailing out Wall Street. It was a gift to the fat cats. Wall Street didn't even make money available for new mortgages after the bailout!
Correct. The net effect of the bailouts was an enormous, historically unprecedented transfer of wealth, amounting to $trillion, from the middle class to the top 1%. Not only was the Billionaire Class saved by the bailouts they were actually enriched beyond imagination.

But I expected nothing less from the Stooges in D.C., Inc., who are totally in the pocket of the Billionaire Class. What is interesting is how easily this Tom Sawyer con works. Yes, the politicos did it to "save" us. Really? No, not really. They made the Billionaire Class fabulously wealthy by stealing money from the middle class.

Last edited by richrf; 03-07-2016 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:56 AM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,269 posts, read 15,924,968 times
Reputation: 7899
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
But she actively spoke in favor of the bad parts of the crime bill, using language like "superpredators." Sanders lobbied very hard to get those parts of the bill taken out. Did you watch the debate? That point was made. In addition, Hillary gets big money from the for-profit prison companies, and she had the chutzpah in the debate to say that she was against for-profit prisons.
I don't have the patience any more to keep repeating what I've written so many times. Yes, I watched the debates..all of them. She received donations from a lot of different companies. It doesn't mean she promised them anything.

"If you can't take their money, drink their whiskey, and then vote against them, you don't deserve to be here." ~Arnold Vinick, The West Wing
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 492,962 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
I don't have the patience any more to keep repeating what I've written so many times. Yes, I watched the debates..all of them. She received donations from a lot of different companies. It doesn't mean she promised them anything.

"If you can't take their money, drink their whiskey, and then vote against them, you don't deserve to be here." ~Arnold Vinick, The West Wing
She has actively held forth Barack Obama as an example of somebody who received lots of money from Wall Street, but wasn't influenced. Yet in spite of a $700 billion dollar bailout and illegal activity on Wall Street, Barack Obama's justice department didn't try any of the guilty bankers.

In fact, Barack Obama said this in a meeting with Wall Street CEOS: “My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks.” Inside Obama's bank CEOs meeting - POLITICO

That's not the influence of Wall Street dollars?

I don't think Hillary is lying consciously. I think that she has arranged and processed things in her mind such that she interprets Barack Obama's saying, "My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks," as what any normal reasonable would have said in response to nearly a trillion dollars in bank fraud, and not something like, "You all belong in jail for the rest of your lives, every single last one of you, and I'm going to put you there." She really believes (that's how psychology works, folks) that the influence of Wall Street money is not at work there, influencing Barack Obama to let them off the hook and not set his justice department on their tail. And the reason her mind works that way is that she is a very rich woman who is surrounded by rich people, and the conversations that she normally has, not for the camera, are with people who think that nearly a trillion dollars in fraud can happen without anybody doing anything really wrong.
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:25 AM
 
1,125 posts, read 506,395 times
Reputation: 819
Its disgusting...remember those guaranteed bonuses AIG still had to pay out after they got bailed out? Your tax dollars go reward those corrupted bankers who caused the meltdown
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