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Old 03-07-2016, 09:19 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,269 posts, read 15,922,500 times
Reputation: 7899

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Tellling the truth doesn't work with Republicans. They demonize her every move so - no - she should not release her speeches.

Should we be privy to any and all of Bernie's private conversations?

That is what you are asking.
I like Bernie Sanders, but if he doesn't win a lot of delegates in Michigan, he has little or no chance of winning the nomination. His supporters will whine about super-PACS and super-delegates, but Hillary is winning the popular vote. If he loses Michigan (and I believe he will) Bernie would need to win every primary after that. I'm not a numbers cruncher, but that's the way I see it.

One thing that does bug me about him is that he's running as a Democrat, yet he continues to denounce the very party he represents. Recently I began to see the future Republican nominee's campaign ads in my head. One ad showed Bernie Sanders talking about how the Democrats have often supported corporate welfare. Another showed Bernie Sanders talking about how much the Obama administration failed. Then we hear a deep voice saying "Even their own candidate realizes how corrupt they are."

I guess people who are trying to discredit Hillary, no matter what it takes, are willing to accept a Republican POTUS and a Republican controlled Congress and possibly a Supreme Court with 2 more justices appointed by a Republican. After all, Ruth Bader Ginsburg will be 84 less than 2 months after the next inauguration.
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:41 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,269 posts, read 15,922,500 times
Reputation: 7899
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
As the full affects of NAFTA become clearer, the electorate may be paying more attention to those who have been overtly supporting the destruction of America's manufacturing industry and have been directly responsible for outsourcing of the best jobs we had to foreign countries.
This is an interesting analysis by FactCheck.org

NOTE: "Sanders claimed NAFTA had caused the loss of 800,000 jobs, but independent economists say the impact on jobs has been small."

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/factchecking-the-seventh-democratic-debate/]FactChecking the Seventh Democratic Debate[/url]
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,196 posts, read 11,820,134 times
Reputation: 32216
EPI isn't the only one who gets to have an opinion on NAFTA.

Quote:
How much of these job losses can be attributed to the impact of NAFTA? Wharton management professor Mauro Guillen has a very different view, suggesting that without NAFTA, many jobs that were lost over this period would probably have gone to China or elsewhere. “Perhaps NAFTA accelerated the process, but it did not make a huge difference. At the same time, a lot of jobs were created in the U.S. that wouldn’t be there without the Mexico trade. I’m not just talking about Texas or California or Arizona…. Many of the products made in Mexico are designed in the United States. So there are a lot of jobs created here.”
and

Quote:
If NAFTA had not been signed, Guillen adds, “the jobs would probably have gone to China or somewhere else; most jobs have relocated to China. The U.S. had a trade deficit with Mexico of $54 billion [in 2013], but with China, it was [a deficit of] $318 billion, so the [U.S.] deficit is five times bigger with China than with Mexico. In other words, you would calculate, maybe for every job we have lost in the U.S. to Mexico, five [jobs] were lost to China.”
NAFTA, 20 Years Later: Do the Benefits Outweigh the Costs? - Knowledge@Wharton

It's not like international trade wouldn't have happened without NAFTA.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:43 PM
 
7,088 posts, read 4,107,778 times
Reputation: 6233
Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
I like Bernie Sanders, but if he doesn't win a lot of delegates in Michigan, he has little or no chance of winning the nomination. His supporters will whine about super-PACS and super-delegates, but Hillary is winning the popular vote. If he loses Michigan (and I believe he will) Bernie would need to win every primary after that. I'm not a numbers cruncher, but that's the way I see it.

One thing that does bug me about him is that he's running as a Democrat, yet he continues to denounce the very party he represents. Recently I began to see the future Republican nominee's campaign ads in my head. One ad showed Bernie Sanders talking about how the Democrats have often supported corporate welfare. Another showed Bernie Sanders talking about how much the Obama administration failed. Then we hear a deep voice saying "Even their own candidate realizes how corrupt they are."

I guess people who are trying to discredit Hillary, no matter what it takes, are willing to accept a Republican POTUS and a Republican controlled Congress and possibly a Supreme Court with 2 more justices appointed by a Republican. After all, Ruth Bader Ginsburg will be 84 less than 2 months after the next inauguration.
The party is corrupt, this isn't a sport. Bernie is right and we're all watching it out in the open.




HRC is also corrupt the position that she needs to hide what she said so Republicans don't see it is ludicrous. She's running for the President of the United States, she's playing bank buster while being a banker. I don't see the merit in hiding negative things because you're rooting for your team.
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Old 03-08-2016, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 492,764 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
EPI isn't the only one who gets to have an opinion on NAFTA.



and



NAFTA, 20 Years Later: Do the Benefits Outweigh the Costs? - Knowledge@Wharton

It's not like international trade wouldn't have happened without NAFTA.
But you lose autonomy with NAFTA.

Any disputes over trade are kicked back to a panel with one member from each nation. So, for example, if pre-NAFTA you could have refused to import products or slapped high tariffs on products from Mexico for any reason, such as they were produced in a factory that pollutes the environment or which pays slave wages, now you can't do that. It is challenged as a barrier to free trade, gets kicked to the panel, and you lose.

NAFTA and similar agreements didn't create international trade, they internationalized the decision making process about tariffs and protections. We can no longer say to factories anywhere in the U.S., "Go ahead and pay your workers $25 per hour. We'll protect you from unfair competition by refusing to import or putting really high tariffs on products that are produced with slave wages in Asia or Latin America." We've lost autonomy.
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Old 03-08-2016, 07:43 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,123 posts, read 16,646,161 times
Reputation: 22663
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Well, you don't seem to have any consistent principles other than supporting HIllary Clinton, whom you got behind not because she's a woman, but for some other reason.

I mean, if you're against lying, you're against lying, whether it's your spouse lying, or the political candidate that you support, or the policeman on the corner, whoever. But not with you. Hillary, whom you got behind for some reason, not because she's a woman, but for some reason, gets a pass.

I guess if we learn that Donald Trump met with the KKK to arrange the robocalls, your position would be that we should leave him alone, because it was a private meeting, and maybe he signed a non-disclosure agreement. And you would further point out that no matter how innocent his meeting with the KKK was, the media would be sure to misconstrue his words. Because you're consistent, you're not just spouting rotten B.S. on here to support your candidate, whom you got behind for some reason, but not because she's a woman.
I'm actually in favor of lying. Have you ever tried telling the actual truth 24/7? It's damn impossible and certainly impossible in Corporate America. My centrist position on lies have served me well. "How was the meeting"? " OH, it was GREAT,I learned so MUCH!! As opposed to - it was a total bag of bullshyte and I want to strangle you for making me go. See how that works?


I suppose you are going to claim that you have never, ever, ever told a lie and Sainted Bernie hasn't either. And, of course, we shall all believe you.


Hillary will make a far better president that Sanders; honestly he is a one-note player and supported by his lily white college students who can apparently not rouse themselves to vote.


I hope they pay you well to come here and shill for him.


Don't associate me with Donald Trump - EVER. Thank you.


Can we have copies of some of Bernie's more communist speeches?
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Old 03-08-2016, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 492,764 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
I'm actually in favor of lying. Have you ever tried telling the actual truth 24/7? It's damn impossible and certainly impossible in Corporate America. My centrist position on lies have served me well. "How was the meeting"? " OH, it was GREAT,I learned so MUCH!! As opposed to - it was a total bag of bullshyte and I want to strangle you for making me go. See how that works?


I suppose you are going to claim that you have never, ever, ever told a lie and Sainted Bernie hasn't either. And, of course, we shall all believe you.


Hillary will make a far better president that Sanders; honestly he is a one-note player and supported by his lily white college students who can apparently not rouse themselves to vote.


I hope they pay you well to come here and shill for him.


Don't associate me with Donald Trump - EVER. Thank you.


Can we have copies of some of Bernie's more communist speeches?
I know you believe in lying. That's why I pointed it out. To do a job that requires lying (shill without facts for a candidate on the Internet, be a confidential informant, lawyer, etc.) you have to be predisposed to lie in the first place. Many people are not. So you know that much about a person who is fulfilling one of those roles.

And as far as releasing Bernie's more communist speeches, have at it. There is information out there on the Internet. Google it. Pressure him. I'm all for honesty. I'm trying to give you a glimpse into how the other half, the non-lying half, looks at things.

Best.
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Old 03-08-2016, 10:16 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,123 posts, read 16,646,161 times
Reputation: 22663
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
I know you believe in lying. That's why I pointed it out. To do a job that requires lying (shill without facts for a candidate on the Internet, be a confidential informant, lawyer, etc.) you have to be predisposed to lie in the first place. Many people are not. So you know that much about a person who is fulfilling one of those roles.

And as far as releasing Bernie's more communist speeches, have at it. There is information out there on the Internet. Google it. Pressure him. I'm all for honesty. I'm trying to give you a glimpse into how the other half, the non-lying half, looks at things.

Best.
I would enjoy your debates if you weren't so into hyperbole. YOU are the shill and we both know that; otherwise you would be a lot more fun.


Everyone lies every day and the world keeps spinning. If you were really a truth-teller - you would admit it. But you choose to tell the biggest lie of all.


Go ahead - tell your boss what you REALLY think and then get back to us. That can be interchangeable with your spouse; bff; children; co-workers, etc etc.


Lies are often kinder than the truth and intent matters.


Yeah; I know there's stuff out there on the Bern. But I'm at work so no links for me at the moment.


Enjoy.
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Old 03-08-2016, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
988 posts, read 492,764 times
Reputation: 1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
I would enjoy your debates if you weren't so into hyperbole. YOU are the shill and we both know that; otherwise you would be a lot more fun.
Right, I'm a shill, which is why I defended Hillary on the emails thread. I'm nothing of the kind. I'm an honest person. But I do understand why that is astonishing to you. Let me describe your situation.

I'll go with Type A and Type B personalities. Type A wants to get ahead, climb the corporate ladder, drive a Mercedes. Type B wants to sit on the porch and listen to John Denver records. But here's the interesting thing. A percentage of each group secretly believes that the other group doesn't really exist, that they are faking it. "He doesn't really want to sit on the porch and listen to John Denver records. He wants to climb the corporate ladder like me." "She doesn't really want to climb the corporate ladder. She wants to get in touch with her inner child." These people have trouble seeing the world in terms of anything other than what they are. Their world view and life experiences are not broad enough to allow it.

So you, a liar, are astonished and incredulous at running across an honest person. I understand why, and it doesn't bother me. In fact, it's what I expect. I wish you the best on your journey through life.
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Old 03-08-2016, 10:29 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,123 posts, read 16,646,161 times
Reputation: 22663
Quote:
Originally Posted by unwillingphoenician View Post
Right, I'm a shill, which is why I defended Hillary on the emails thread. I'm nothing of the kind. I'm an honest person. But I do understand why that is astonishing to you. Let me describe your situation.

I'll go with Type A and Type B personalities. Type A wants to get ahead, climb the corporate ladder, drive a Mercedes. Type B wants to sit on the porch and listen to John Denver records. But here's the interesting thing. A percentage of each group secretly believes that the other group doesn't really exist, that they are faking it. "He doesn't really want to sit on the porch and listen to John Denver records. He wants to climb the corporate ladder like me." "She doesn't really want to climb the corporate ladder. She wants to get in touch with her inner child." These people have trouble seeing the world in terms of anything other than what they are. Their world view and life experiences are not broad enough to allow it.

So you, a liar, are astonished and incredulous at running across an honest person. I understand why, and it doesn't bother me. In fact, it's what I expect. I wish you the best on your journey through life.
Everything you just typed is incorrect. Like most people do - you describe yourself.


Have you ever seen a psychologist?
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