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Old 04-23-2016, 07:57 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,159,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunD1987 View Post
Most third party are only on a limited amount of ballots. Think Green and Libertarian are only on 36 ballots come Election time.
But it isn't because they aren't allowed to. There are states like North Carolina and West Virgina make it onerous, but it can be done.
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Old 04-23-2016, 08:03 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
But it isn't because they aren't allowed to. There are states like North Carolina and West Virgina make it onerous, but it can be done.
WV has a large slate of (L)'s running this year. The fight now is to get them in to the coming debates.
 
Old 04-23-2016, 08:30 AM
 
29,548 posts, read 9,720,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I can tell you that if you make a protest vote, the media and the powers that be won't understand what it is you are doing and may mischaracterize it. In a previous primary, I voted for a Presidential candidate who had already dropped out of the race. I did it deliberately as a protest as did others, apparently. Unfortunately, the news media took it to mean there were a bunch of dopes living here who didn't know this particular candidate had already dropped out. Lot's of tsk-tsking after that one.

In other words, if you vote for Joe Blow on the XYZ ticket protesting your Clinton/Trump choice, there is no box to check that it's a protest vote. The usual suspects in the media and in the party machine will just marvel at Joe Blow's last minute appeal...and don't be surprised if Joe Blow, shocked and encouraged by the votes he got, runs again in 4 years and hits you up for a donation.
Assuming it ultimately ends up to be the choice of either Hillary or Trump...

I wish I had done a better job explaining my question, and/or I am surprised there are so many people who view voting for other than Hillary or Trump as somehow meaningful in any practical sense. I don't get it.

Along the lines of what LauraC explains in her comment, I agree. In fact, I have considered the "protest vote" for other than one of the two parties before. I've even done it! Only to realize that vote ultimately ended up meaning nothing in the final analysis, or even worse, backfired.

Lots of people THINK that if they don't vote or if they vote for some 3rd party candidate that somehow there is some great political God in the sky that looks down and says, "wow, look at all those protest votes, AGAIN!" Instead what happens is that the winner waves to the Americans watching on the TV, gives their thank you speech pledging to serve ALL Americans no matter how divided, and all the rest is forgotten just like that.

When that moment comes, again, YOU who don't understand this reality are the ones who need to think hard about how your vote actually mattered. Not me. I wish I could say differently, but until that savior of a 3rd party candidate comes along that actually can coalesce a viable alternative to the other two choices, you are peesing your vote away by voting for a phantom third choice that has no such chance.

Now if even ONE person offered a truly viable manner in which these non-Hillary-non-Trump votes would actually register and effect change -- other than just wishful thinking -- I would be curious to better understand that option, but please note; NOT ONE SUCH COMMENT. For example, if there actually WAS a 3rd party choice that could be a contender, or..., if enough "protest votes" were somehow united in a direction that the status quo might somehow be affected this time better than the last time, but again please note; NOT ONE SUCH COMMENT.

Accordingly, I just cannot conclude or logically rationalize any other way; if you don't vote for either Hillary or Trump, you are essentially wasting your vote, because it is not being heard or registered like you wish it were. Worse still, if you happen to prefer one over the other and don't vote, you actually help the side you prefer least by not voting for the side you prefer most! That's a mistake as well if you ask me...

This is the fundamental rationale I wanted to test with my question, this thread, and so far again unless I am missing something, I don't see how a vote for other than Hillary or Trump is anything other than a wasted vote just like not voting at all (assuming those will be the two choices as I do).
 
Old 04-23-2016, 08:33 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Hillary will get us into more wars. I will sleep better at night knowing I had no part of that.

Trump is the unknown but hasn't said anything to convince me he would stay and get us out of them.

Hence, I can vote for neither.
 
Old 04-23-2016, 08:36 AM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,326,422 times
Reputation: 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
But it isn't because they aren't allowed to. There are states like North Carolina and West Virgina make it onerous, but it can be done.
That is one of the most pressing issues, ballot access reform and while there have been improvements over the year the hodge-podge of arcane laws that restrict ballot access still have a long way to go.

The Worst Ballot Access Laws in the United States - FairVote
 
Old 04-23-2016, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,205,095 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I keep reading these comments about how people will not vote for either Hillary or Trump given certain circumstances, and I wonder how it is they don't realize they are simply abdicating the election for our next POTUS to those who WILL vote for Hillary or Trump. Not sure how people can logically conclude to waste their vote on other than either of those two, but maybe somebody knows something I don't?
Call me old fashioned, but I agree with what Coolidge said: “If all men are created equal, that is final. If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final. If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final.”
- - - Calvin Coolidge, Speech on the Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence (1926)
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge

● I prefer the republican form of government, where the people are sovereigns, and the government is their servant. I like it when government secures endowed rights, but can only govern those who consent.

● But if folks want the democratic form of government, where the people are subjects and the government rules them, who am I to say they can't. They can consent, surrender their birthright of sovereignty, freedom and independence, in exchange for civil and political liberties.

● But I am opposed to the widespread use of fraud and disinformation used to trick Americans into volunteering without full disclosure. All those endowed rights go right out the window, once you consent to be governed. (Mandatory civic duties are prima facie evidence that one is no longer sovereign, with endowed rights to life, liberty and absolute ownership of private property.)

● And if 83+ years of two party collectivist servitude under “emergency rules” isn’t enough to persuade them to change, I can’t imagine what will.
 
Old 04-23-2016, 09:05 AM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,326,422 times
Reputation: 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
● And if 83+ years of two party collectivist servitude under “emergency rules” isn’t enough to persuade them to change, I can’t imagine what will.
Your posts never cease to entertain.
 
Old 04-23-2016, 09:36 AM
 
29,548 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Hillary will get us into more wars. I will sleep better at night knowing I had no part of that.

Trump is the unknown but hasn't said anything to convince me he would stay and get us out of them.

Hence, I can vote for neither.
Hence you will let those who can vote for either to decide for you. That's ultimately my point.

As you wish of course...
 
Old 04-23-2016, 09:42 AM
 
29,548 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Call me old fashioned...

● But I am opposed to the widespread use of fraud and disinformation used to trick Americans into volunteering without full disclosure.
But this is the American way!
 
Old 04-23-2016, 09:44 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Hence you will let those who can vote for either to decide for you. That's ultimately my point.

As you wish of course...
No one is deciding for me. It's sad you can not decide for yourself.
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