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Old 02-16-2008, 12:06 AM
 
783 posts, read 2,353,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdummy View Post
You know why they call Bill "Bill", and they call Hillary "Hillary"?????....Because they're not the same person!

It's seems like every Hillary supporter I encounter supports her because of what Bill accomplished, not for what she has accomplished. Yes, Bill was a great president. He was a fiscal conservative who left us with a budget surplus. Yes, times were good under Bill, and alot of us middle class people lived fairly affluently in the 90's.

However....for the love of God people...HILLARY IS NOT BILL!

Yes, we all know they are a "political team", but many of her ideas are very different from his, particularly when it comes to spending. She's not going to do things exactly as Bill would do things, because she's not nearly as financially conservative as he was. Nor does she have the gift of being able to influence people and bring them together like Bill did.

Additionally, even if Bill does play puppet master to Hillary, this doesn't mean we're going to repeat the booming 1990's all over again. Folk's it just doesn't work that way...this is a whole new era, with a whole new set of problems, and a different set of circumstances.

So with that said, what has Hillary, herself, accomplished that makes her a good candidate for president?

in one statement. Nothing of value.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:58 PM
 
3,568 posts, read 3,273,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alysse157 View Post
Interesting post. I agree Mrs. Clinton is her own person and should be judged on her own merits rather than those of her husband. Yet, a number of Obama supporters are quick to judge and punish Mrs. Clinton for her husband's mistakes/shortcomings during his administration. You can't have it both ways. So, which is it? If she is to be viewed as an individual, then that needs to be case the consistently.
Actually it is Hillary that wants it both ways. She claims her time as First Lady as qualifying experience for her run for the White House. So she can't pick and choose what part of that experience will be highlighted by her opponents. Having it both ways is the way the Clintons have always operated, however.
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:05 PM
 
3,568 posts, read 3,273,360 times
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Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
Hillary hasn't accomplished much of note. Bill Clinton's reputation is vastly overrated. He benefitted enormously from the emergence of the Internet and the subsequent dot com boom. These monumental events coincided with his presidency but they didn't come about because of him. He didn't facilitate their creation. He and Hillary really need to disappear.
Agreed. Moreover, the election of a fiscally conservative Congress in 1994 is what made Clinton appear more moderate than he really was. It's that Congress that balanced the budget and passed welfare reform dragging Clinton kicking and screaming toward fiscal responsibilty. Finally Clinton benefitted from the so-called "peace dividend" which was the result of Reagan bringing the Soviet empire to its knees. Clinton went on a spending spree of social programs that was paid for by downsizing the military and crippling our intelligence capabilities. And we know what that lead to.
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: North Texas
384 posts, read 866,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Agreed. Moreover, the election of a fiscally conservative Congress in 1994 is what made Clinton appear more moderate than he really was. It's that Congress that balanced the budget and passed welfare reform dragging Clinton kicking and screaming toward fiscal responsibilty. Finally Clinton benefitted from the so-called "peace dividend" which was the result of Reagan bringing the Soviet empire to its knees. Clinton went on a spending spree of social programs that was paid for by downsizing the military and crippling our intelligence capabilities. And we know what that lead to.
Well stated and true.
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
973 posts, read 1,991,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Agreed. Moreover, the election of a fiscally conservative Congress in 1994 is what made Clinton appear more moderate than he really was. It's that Congress that balanced the budget and passed welfare reform dragging Clinton kicking and screaming toward fiscal responsibilty. Finally Clinton benefitted from the so-called "peace dividend" which was the result of Reagan bringing the Soviet empire to its knees. Clinton went on a spending spree of social programs that was paid for by downsizing the military and crippling our intelligence capabilities. And we know what that lead to.
Economic booms and bust rarely EVER are from the direct influence of the current administration. I suppose that Clinton fans want to discount the recession around 2001 was due to Clinton's administration and claim it was due to Bush (who was only in office a few months at the time). The lowered interest rates, which led to the housing boom & bust, is what led to our CURRENT recession, and that was all due to the rising economic problems that had been growing the last few years of Clinton's final term. I'm not a fan of either Bush or Clinton administrations, which is why I was hoping someone more separated from them would come in and clean up government spending - something like a Romney/Paul ticket.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:16 AM
 
3,568 posts, read 3,273,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucfjtm View Post
Economic booms and bust rarely EVER are from the direct influence of the current administration. I suppose that Clinton fans want to discount the recession around 2001 was due to Clinton's administration and claim it was due to Bush (who was only in office a few months at the time). The lowered interest rates, which led to the housing boom & bust, is what led to our CURRENT recession, and that was all due to the rising economic problems that had been growing the last few years of Clinton's final term. I'm not a fan of either Bush or Clinton administrations, which is why I was hoping someone more separated from them would come in and clean up government spending - something like a Romney/Paul ticket.
I understand the appeal of the outsider. And it is powerful. It gave us Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and the current president. I, too, am disappointed that Romney didn't do better. But the reality is that an outsider, once elected, quickly staffs his administration with inside-the-Beltway pros and things pretty much continue as they always have. Moreover, the real power resides in the hands of the career staffers who have very little allegiance to any administration. A prime example is the CIA which has opposed Bush at every turn and leaked like a sieve national security secrets to sabotage his efforts to fight foreign and home-grown terrorism. Some may look at that as a good thing because they hate Bush and so anything that obstructs his efforts they consider good. But think about it. What is the purpose of an election if the winner of the election is not allowed to govern? When the Congress is in the hands of the opposite party and they obstruct the executive, that's one thing. As an elected branch of government they also have a mandate and if the people vote for a divided government and the result is that nothing gets done, so be it. But when unelected bureaucrats arrogate to themselves the right and power to obstruct an elected branch of government then democracy is what suffers because it is the will of the people that is being thwarted.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,108 posts, read 19,203,402 times
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Lightbulb Hillary is not Bill

But Hillary is Bill's ticket back into the White House and back into the limelight of American politics. And he obviously has a strong desire to be at the seat of power again. With the Clintons, everything is always about them.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:27 AM
 
3,568 posts, read 3,273,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
But Hillary is Bill's ticket back into the White House and back into the limelight of American politics. And he obviously has a strong desire to be at the seat of power again. With the Clintons, everything is always about them.

To a certain extent that can be said of most, if not all, politicians. But I agree that the Clintons, and Bill in particular, exhibits that form of narcisscism to an exraordinary degree. And while narcisscism is generally considered a negative personality trait Bill seems to have no qualms about flaunting it publicly. Either that in itself is a mark of that personality flaw or the sycophants around him and in the media have for so long applauded him for it that he doesn't see how distasteful that makes him appear.
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