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Throughout the election cycle, Sanders has been trying to fight against injustice, including voter suppression, irregularities, etc. His campaign, supporters and himself have especially called on New York and Arizona on voter suppression. Yet by far the biggest voter suppression comes from caucuses, which have extremely low participation and suppress votes by a few times. Most working class people have difficulties making to caucus sites at specific timeslots. However, Bernie Sanders sweeps through caucuses and gained much of his delegates from caucuses which are in no way in resemblance with the real democratic electorate. Bernie Sanders and his supporters have turned blind eye on rules that really suppress votes the most whenever results are favourable to them. Bernie Sanders and his supporters are really hypocritical in this regard. Without caucuses, Bernie sanders would not even have been competitive. Yes caucuses are rules from the party but so are closed primaries, yet the Sanders campaign have huge problems with closed primaries.
Now let's use real figures to illustrate my point by comparing voting stats of New York and Arizona to the 3 biggest caucus states, Washington, Minnesota, Colorado.
New York
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 primary : 1.79 million (still some to report, about the same as 2008 primary turnout of 1.87 million)
Estimate of democratic electorate in the General Election : 4.49 million (using number of votes Obama got in 2012 election)
% of turnout in 2016 primary out of the democratic electorate : 40%
Arizona
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 primary : 466k (MORE than 2008 primary turnout of 456k)
Estimate of democratic electorate in the General Election : 1.03 million
% of turnout in 2016 primary out of the democratic electorate : 45%
Washington
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 caucus : about 240k (estimated by dem party of Washington : 2016 Democratic Caucuses | Washington State Democratic Party)
Estimate of democratic electorate : 1.76 million
% of turnout in 2016 caucus out of the democratic electorate : 14%
Minnesota
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 caucus : about 205k (these were actual votes reported)
Estimate of democratic electorate : 1.55 million
% of turnout in 2016 caucus out of the democratic electorate : 14%
Colorado
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 caucus : about 124k (these were actual votes reported)
Estimate of democratic electorate : 1.33 million
% of turnout in 2016 caucus out of the democratic electorate : 10%
Disclaimer : I respect all rules, including all caucus results, I am merel stating how hypocritical the Bernie camp and supporters have been.
Throughout the election cycle, Sanders has been trying to fight against injustice, including voter suppression, irregularities, etc. His campaign, supporters and himself have especially called on New York and Arizona on voter suppression. Yet by far the biggest voter suppression comes from caucuses, which have extremely low participation and suppress votes by a few times. Most working class people have difficulties making to caucus sites at specific timeslots. However, Bernie Sanders sweeps through caucuses and gained much of his delegates from caucuses which are in no way in resemblance with the real democratic electorate. Bernie Sanders and his supporters have turned blind eye on rules that really suppress votes the most whenever results are favourable to them. Bernie Sanders and his supporters are really hypocritical in this regard. Without caucuses, Bernie sanders would not even have been competitive. Yes caucuses are rules from the party but so are closed primaries, yet the Sanders campaign have huge problems with closed primaries.
Now let's use real figures to illustrate my point by comparing voting stats of New York and Arizona to the 3 biggest caucus states, Washington, Minnesota, Colorado.
New York
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 primary : 1.79 million (still some to report, about the same as 2008 primary turnout of 1.87 million)
Estimate of democratic electorate in the General Election : 4.49 million (using number of votes Obama got in 2012 election)
% of turnout in 2016 primary out of the democratic electorate : 40%
Arizona
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 primary : 466k (MORE than 2008 primary turnout of 456k)
Estimate of democratic electorate in the General Election : 1.03 million
% of turnout in 2016 primary out of the democratic electorate : 45%
Washington
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 caucus : about 240k (estimated by dem party of Washington : 2016 Democratic Caucuses | Washington State Democratic Party)
Estimate of democratic electorate : 1.76 million
% of turnout in 2016 caucus out of the democratic electorate : 14%
Minnesota
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 caucus : about 205k (these were actual votes reported)
Estimate of democratic electorate : 1.55 million
% of turnout in 2016 caucus out of the democratic electorate : 14%
Colorado
Turnout in # of votes in 2016 caucus : about 124k (these were actual votes reported)
Estimate of democratic electorate : 1.33 million
% of turnout in 2016 caucus out of the democratic electorate : 10%
Disclaimer : I respect all rules, including all caucus results, I am merel stating how hypocritical the Bernie camp and supporters have been.
I don't agree that caucus states are engaging in voter suppression. Any qualifying voter can show up to caucus, just as any qualified voter can cast a ballot.
There's no question that balloting is more efficient and that it is easier for voters to participate. But even so, in primary states the turnout is still lower than it is in the general. Primary or caucus, participants are more motivated than the general population. Here in Washington, I'm not sure that the end results would have been all that different if we'd had a primary.
Any registered voter in my state can attend a caucus.
As a matter of fact, they are held every 2 years immediately after the polls close.
The one thing caucus winners have in common is commitment and organization. Know who your voters are and be sure they attend. That's all there is to it. How else would one determine the convention delegates?
I don't agree that caucus states are engaging in voter suppression. Any qualifying voter can show up to caucus, just as any qualified voter can cast a ballot.
Although I agree that it isn't voter suppression, I do have a problem with your statement that "any qualifying voter can show up to a caucus." You need to arrive at a certain time and stay for 2 or 3 hours, depending on the state.
If the caucuses begin at 10 and you work in a store open for business, someone needs to watch the store until closing to service the customers. This includes supermarkets, convenience stores, big box stores like Home Depot, 24 hour stores like Walmart, and pharmacies like CVS and Walgreens, restaurants, fast food chains, etc.
If a hospital or emergency care clinic can function for a few hours with a smaller staff, someone still has to be working in the ER, the nurses station, on the ambulances, in the ICU, etc. Saying "anyone can show up" also means that all the firefighters and police officers can simply leave their posts. Also, let's not forget about people who have small children at home. If they hire babysitters, that means those people have to be under 18 or they're also not participating in the voting process.
I like your posts, so I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm simply pointing out that not every business is open from 9-5, Mon-Fri. So whether a caucus begins at 6PM on Tues or 10AM on Sat, it will always leave thousands of people out of the process. In other words, the limited time of a caucus results in selective participation. Just look at the numbers.
Last edited by justNancy; 04-20-2016 at 02:52 PM..
I live in a caucus state and it absolutely disenfranchises voters. People in my own family couldn't caucus due to illness and work and school commitments, and many of my friends and neighbors missed out as well for similar reasons plus childcare issues. It is hard to put in 3 hours of time on a week/school night.
It feels especially ironic here in Colorado where we have mail in voting - the specific goal is to make it as easy as possible to vote so as many people as possible can participate. Most of the people I referenced above are regular voters and absolutely would have mailed in or dropped off a ballot. But nope, with a caucus system, if they can't be available for several hours at a very specific place and time, they get no say.
I don't want to go off topic, but I want to ask why voting in closed primaries has become such a major issue to Sanders now. I realize that voting rules are up to the state, but did he complain when Obama ran in 2008? I mean, Hillary won New York back then and about the same amount of people voted. After all, he's the one who chose to run as a Democrat.
I really like the way Daywalk showed the percentage of participation in caucuses vs primaries. It's a real eye-opener.
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