U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-17-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Albemarle, NC
7,730 posts, read 12,718,411 times
Reputation: 1505

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by vickilynn View Post
I still can't figure out why people say Obama doesn't have substance? Have you read all his stances on the issues? If most people agree that on many issues there is very little difference between Hillary and Obama, other than one is "moral" (to be trusted to do what is good for the whole) and one is not, then why aren't there more posts saying Hillary has no substance?
I make the claim because no one is yet able to answer any questions about his health care. He makes vague general comments. I asked a detailed question of his supporters. I've asked it many times. It never gets answered. Not once.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-17-2008, 11:50 AM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,803,419 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Yep!!! The GOP will make mincemeat out of the Obama family. At least Hillary has already been through the grinder.

Obama's "change" and "hope" message is a yawn. To be grammatically incorrect here, he ain't changin' nuthin'.

Say hello to president McCain.
In short, this is Hillary's claim to electability: that she has been through the grinder. Or to use Hillary's own words, "the vast right wing conspiracy". Well, she still has to survive the vast left wing conspiracy in her own party (Move On.Org and the rest of the gang) before she can take on the right wingers. It appears she will not even survive that. I wonder if the right wing is conspiring with the left wing to deny Hillary Clinton the presidency of the United States. Now that's one vast conspiracy indeed !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,700 posts, read 35,640,276 times
Reputation: 7952
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
In short, this is Hillary's claim to electability: that she has been through the grinder. Or to use Hillary's own words, "the vast right wing conspiracy". Well, she still has to survive the vast left wing conspiracy in her own party (Move On.Org and the rest of the gang) before she can take on the right wingers. It appears she will not even survive that. I wonder if the right wing is conspiring with the left wing to deny Hillary Clinton the presidency of the United States. Now that's one vast conspiracy indeed !
I guess both wings have it in for her eh? I think the GOP would rather have Obama vs. McCain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 11:59 AM
 
9,715 posts, read 13,328,476 times
Reputation: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by paperhouse View Post
I make the claim because no one is yet able to answer any questions about his health care. He makes vague general comments. I asked a detailed question of his supporters. I've asked it many times. It never gets answered. Not once.
They aren't going to answer it. They can't answer it. They don't know the answer.

I've asked about his stance on gun control. No answer except "Look it up for yourself. I'm not doing your work for you."

I can't wait to see the campaign against Obama. Should be interesting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,233 posts, read 7,743,499 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by paperhouse View Post
I make the claim because no one is yet able to answer any questions about his health care. He makes vague general comments. I asked a detailed question of his supporters. I've asked it many times. It never gets answered. Not once.
How COULD anybody on this forum answer your question? You've taken three sentences out of a 15 page document, that has been edited down from a much larger proposal, and pasted them with no context. You really are trying to argue that Obama hasn't provided enough detail on his proposals? These proposals by Hillary and Obama are the most detailed EVER presented by a candidate. My guess is that these numbers you ask for are the things that get negotiated when the bill is actually written. I am sure he and his people with experience and degrees in macroeconomics have starting point numbers in their full proposals. If YOU want to find those numbers and find fault in them, go for it.

Where can I find any detailed info on McCain's health care plan? Or his economic plans? The only proposal I have heard from him is to occupy Iraq for as long as possible. The Republicans have been getting away with bumper sticker slogans for 8 years now. "You're with us or against us." "We'll fight 'em there so we don't fight them here." "Let's Roll." "Mission Accomplished." What the hell do these things really mean?

I really can't believe you are trying to argue that Obama has "vague general comments" on health care. You didn't ask ask a "detailed question of his supporters." You cherry-picked three sentences out of a large document that didn't have specific numbers, somehow insinuating that this plan is not well thought out.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pd...reFullPlan.pdf
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama...lthcareFAQ.pdf
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,233 posts, read 7,743,499 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
They aren't going to answer it. They can't answer it. They don't know the answer.

I've asked about his stance on gun control. No answer except "Look it up for yourself. I'm not doing your work for you."

I can't wait to see the campaign against Obama. Should be interesting.
You didn't ask for Obama's stance on gun control, you asked to explain the discrepancies in his stance on gun control. All I said was "what discrepancies?" And I still haven't gotten an answer. If you are going to say there are discrepancies, you need to explain that before someone can answer it. Maybe he has been inconsistent. Many politicians have been for many reasons. But the allegations you make can not be discussed until we know what the hell you are talking about.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/2008-...ml#post2844068

I can claim that my poops smell of honey and roses, but unless I can back that up, it's just hot air being anonymously spewed forth over the internets.

Here's his stance:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ad..._Sportsmen.pdf

Last edited by Art123; 02-17-2008 at 12:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,836 posts, read 17,343,630 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by paperhouse View Post
I make the claim because no one is yet able to answer any questions about his health care. He makes vague general comments. I asked a detailed question of his supporters. I've asked it many times. It never gets answered. Not once.
Hey, it's my thread. No hijacking!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 12:49 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,803,419 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
How COULD anybody on this forum answer your question? You've taken three sentences out of a 15 page document, that has been edited down from a much larger proposal, and pasted them with no context. You really are trying to argue that Obama hasn't provided enough detail on his proposals? These proposals by Hillary and Obama are the most detailed EVER presented by a candidate. My guess is that these numbers you ask for are the things that get negotiated when the bill is actually written. I am sure he and his people with experience and degrees in macroeconomics have starting point numbers in their full proposals. If YOU want to find those numbers and find fault in them, go for it.
Excellent point. Those who wants specific numbers on the health care plan are being juvenile and unrealistic. There will never be any hard numbers because the market changes all the time, and the benefits that any health plan will provide will depend on market conditions prevailing at that given moment. When Obama's plan talks about setting thresholds and fair and stable premiums, you will never get an actual figure, and you shouldn't expect any. For one, nobody can predict what health care inflation will be going forward. Technological innovations may increase or decrease health care cost, and it will be foolish for any politician to second guess what the impact will be years before they actually happen. Do electronic medical records increase or decrease health care costs? The jury is still out on that one.

Try reading any health insurance policy, and you will encounter the term "customary and reasonable charges" very often. There is no hard number stated because costs change all the time.

I like Obama's plan better that way, the fact that he doesn't micromanage health policy down to pegging actual numbers. And as you say, these numbers will be negotiated by Congress and industry players anyway, so whatever specific number Obama may put out there will not be final. Hillary touts her plan's specificity as a strength, but that is actually a weakness. It smacks of centralized economic planning reminiscent of Stalin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,233 posts, read 7,743,499 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by paperhouse View Post
I make the claim because no one is yet able to answer any questions about his health care. He makes vague general comments. I asked a detailed question of his supporters. I've asked it many times. It never gets answered. Not once.
And speaking of not answering questions, you left one asked specifically of you (by me). Would you care to answer? It was the last post on this thread (the one where you compared Obama to Hitler):
http://www.city-data.com/forum/2008-...eprompter.html

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,233 posts, read 7,743,499 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Hey, it's my thread. No hijacking!

Sorry that the thread got hijacked. Paperhouse has a wonderful history of dropping threads wants he gets backed into a corner.

The formula for taking down Obama IS becoming clear. And it looks very thin and weak. Thanks for your thoughts. Apparently you can add that he is a gay Muslim crackhead terrorist whose mother was on the grassy knoll and father is an Iranian nuclear scientist that raped Bill AND Hillary back in a pot-filled dorm room where they handed out condoms to small children and planned the socialist takeover of Washington DC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top