U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-18-2008, 12:06 PM
 
413 posts, read 833,888 times
Reputation: 60

Advertisements

I'm not sure which thread it was, but yesterday I posted a transcript of a speech Barack Obama gave in 2002. It unequivocally rejected the idea of the "dumb war" and invading Iraq.

I really can't grant anyone a pass for the vote to authorize force just because of a general hawkishness in America. The onus is on each and every politician to make an informed decision on which way to vote, and on something as critical as the decision to send soldiers to fight, die, and embroil our nation in a long-term conflict, any politician who does not exercise due diligence has no place in office. The information, including the State Dept., Energy Dept., and CIA objections to statements in the National Intelligence Estimate, were there.

Even so, I question the wisdom of any politician who wishes to unilaterally enforce a disparate policy of nonproliferation or arms control. Even if Iraq had possessed WMDs, which was not the case, what right did the United States have to enforce it? Any national-level politician knew damn well that the US does not have jurisdiction to enforce UN resolutions.

 
Old 02-18-2008, 12:14 PM
BVH
 
Location: Pennsylvania
944 posts, read 465,836 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnt View Post
I'm not sure which thread it was, but yesterday I posted a transcript of a speech Barack Obama gave in 2002. It unequivocally rejected the idea of the "dumb war" and invading Iraq.

I really can't grant anyone a pass for the vote to authorize force just because of a general hawkishness in America. The onus is on each and every politician to make an informed decision on which way to vote, and on something as critical as the decision to send soldiers to fight, die, and embroil our nation in a long-term conflict, any politician who does not exercise due diligence has no place in office. The information, including the State Dept., Energy Dept., and CIA objections to statements in the National Intelligence Estimate, were there.

Even so, I question the wisdom of any politician who wishes to unilaterally enforce a disparate policy of nonproliferation or arms control. Even if Iraq had possessed WMDs, which was not the case, what right did the United States have to enforce it? Any national-level politician knew damn well that the US does not have jurisdiction to enforce UN resolutions.
Honestly, I don't know what those documents contained precisely nor how skewed they were. The Administration is definately not known for it's honesty. You are definately preaching to the choir though. I am a staunch isolationist and believe that we have no business "spreading democracy" across the planet. Especially at the cost of 1000's of American casualties and many times that in soldier's mental/physical injuries, and at a cost 0f $500,000 a minute!!! You realize that in the time it took me to type this, we'll have spent more than most Americans will make in the next 10 years of their lives!!!

To reconnect this to the original intent of this thread, I think that there is FAR too much at stake in this election cycle to have people treating this as though it were "American Idol". I couldn't possibly care less who Deniro, Chuck Norris, Whoopi Goldberg or the lot of them support! Call me crazy, but, I tend to like to look to more reputable and capable sources when it comes to an event that will change the lives and affect millions of Americans. Clearly, there are those like yourself and others in both Clinton and Obama's camps on this board who have indeed given thoughtful input to this critical decision.

Unfortunately though there are those like the OP who clearly have not and treat this as though it were nothing more than a popularity contest. As you can well attest, regardless of who's "side" we are on, American lives are quite literally at stake.

Last edited by BVH; 02-18-2008 at 12:23 PM..
 
Old 02-18-2008, 12:17 PM
 
413 posts, read 833,888 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVH View Post
Honestly, I don't know what those documents contained precisely nor how skewed they were. The Administration is definately not known for it's honesty. You are definately preaching to the choir though. I am a staunch isolationist and believe that we have no business "spreading democracy" across the planet. Especially at the cost of 1000's of American casualties and many times that in soldier's mental/physical injuries, and at a cost 0f $500,000 a minute!!! You realize that in the time it took me to type this, we'll have spent more than most Americans will make in the next 10 years of their lives!!!
Tell me about it.

And thanks to this pseudorepublican, my kid will someday have to pay the price, I'm sure.

That's it. I'm moving to effing New Zealand.
 
Old 02-18-2008, 12:26 PM
BVH
 
Location: Pennsylvania
944 posts, read 465,836 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnt View Post
Tell me about it.

And thanks to this pseudorepublican, my kid will someday have to pay the price, I'm sure.

That's it. I'm moving to effing New Zealand.
Yep. George W. Bush has ruined America's economy and put us in harm's way for generations to come just so that we can "spread democracy", at all costs, to people who don't even want us there. As a matter of fact, he's over in Africa handing out 100's of millions more as we speak!!!!
 
Old 02-18-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,233 posts, read 7,724,616 times
Reputation: 2623
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVH View Post
Yep. George W. Bush has ruined America's economy and put us in harm's way for generations to come just so that we can "spread democracy", at all costs, to people who don't even want us there. As a matter of fact, he's over in Africa handing out 100's of millions more as we speak!!!!
Oh, I am getting that warm fuzzy feeling. One thing is for sure, Obama and Hillary supporters will eventually unite to end this Republican war insanity, not to mention the "fiscal conservative" hypocrisy.
 
Old 02-18-2008, 02:13 PM
 
6 posts, read 14,147 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVH View Post
Well, let me be one of the first on here to thank you for your brave service to the Nation. I appreciate the fact that you guys and gals put your lives in harm's way to keep me safe. I certainly hope that you all know that the VAST majority of Americans are 150% behind you. That whole "mission accomplished" nonsense still turns my stomach. Hopefully, in 2009, we can get you guys back home where you belong. Frankly, I am not at all comfortable with the fact that we are completely vulnerable here on the homefront.

I agree with you to a degree on the Hillary Iraq vote. I don't blame her for the initial vote, nescessarily, because I think there was a hawkish mentality at the time of the vote, and a high likelyhood that she, along with others at the time were deliberately misled by the Bush Administration. I would be much happier if she would admit that the vote was a mistake. On this issue, Obama has little credibility, imo, because he wasn't in the Senate and therefore, he is asking us to merely take his word that he would have voted no. Regardless, I think that both Clinton and Obama will prioritize ending this war. I just think that Hillary Clinton will do a better job actually accomplishing the job.

I think I have to agree with BVH. I remember seeing Barak Obama for the first time at the convention, a few years ago. I told my family, "theres the VP for Hillary" back then. Maybe its wishful thinking. I live in Spain, so my view from here is probably a bit different than most. Even though he is an eloquent speaker, an obviously intelligent and charasmatic man, what do we really know about his experience? I would love to vote for him, but I am scratching my head over here wondering why on earth would I vote for him before Hillary?? I agree her vote for the war was a mistake (and wish she would claim it, but obviously cannot do that if she gets nominated as the conservatives would pulverize her for saying that). But at the end of the day, I would rather have democrats for the next 16 years: 2 terms with Pres. Hillary and VP Barak, and then 2 more terms with PRes Barak and VP ??.

That way we all get what we want while Barak gets a bit of experience and formal presence in his back pocket at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. In my humble opinion I will be surprised if he gets elected President this time round, or gets the democratic nomination despite the media frenzy in his favor. Not at all because he is black (if only they knew how past that we all are) its because he is Muslim (the new card). I dont think the question is "can America elect a black president". I think the question is, "can America elect a Muslim". I could care less about religion, so this is not my personal view. Its what I think I feel from over here, living with many Muslims here in Spain, and seeing how the majority of the Spanish detest them because of the Madrid Bombing. Maybe I am wrong, but I cant see him getting in just yet. I think America has to adjust to his presence a little more, he seemed to pop out of nowhere. We need to get to know him, what makes him tick, etc. At least we know Hillary, all her human frailties and all. She aint that bad. Hell, my dog wouldnt be that bad considering who she would be replacing!!

In the end, at least he represents great hope for a better future years from now because he is so young. I hope they both get to the White House....(Black house??) ha ha
 
Old 02-18-2008, 02:18 PM
 
413 posts, read 833,888 times
Reputation: 60
caninecounselor, what makes you think Obama's a Muslim?

Not that it matters to me, but he isn't a Muslim. That was a bogus story run by an irresponsible news outlet and false e-mails.
 
Old 02-18-2008, 05:01 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,509,578 times
Reputation: 18436
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVH View Post
It was directed at the grossly uninformed Original Poster of this thread. Unfortunately uneducated sensationalism is a recurring theme in the majority of her postings. But, then again, what do I know? I'm just an underachieving piece of redneck white trash.
Sorry BVH, you have long ago been placed on my "ignore" list. I haven't been interested in your posts for quite some time. They are meaningless to me. Thank you though for considering mine important enough to pay attention to. Not my problem that Hillary is such a pathetic candidate and the country is noticing the obvious.

Also, I didn't call all Hillary supporters "redneck, underachieving, ....", I merely stated that these were the types of people who wouldn't be voting for Obama. Misreading my posts as you usually do, you misinterpreted that statement to refer to Hillary supporters, supporters who for the most part I have a great respect for.

Finally, I am not a woman. My handle refers to the car I drive which is "A Lexus."
 
Old 02-18-2008, 09:59 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,663,064 times
Reputation: 3676
I once recalled seeing a topic around here called...

Robert DeNiro on Obama's "inexperience."

Keep this on topic if you want to keep this thread open.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:33 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top