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I feel that many anti Trump people are angry at HIM and not really angry at his message, if someone they liked personally had the same exact message, it would be all good.
As a person who likes to think he's smart on occasion, i feel that separating the person from the message is important. Is it really imperative to like a person personally if their message is strong and they'll do a fine job fixing things that need to be fixed?
Also, would it be possible to get a 'likeable' person to deliver the same tough message that needs to be delivered? I don't necessarily like Trump or dislike him, but i feel my advantage is that i 'get' him, he's a blustery ego driven male who's telling it like he believes it to be, i'm not going to hold that against him, people are allowed to believe and say what they want, we all do it and we all believe what we believe.
My advice to people who 'hate' Trump is try and stay calm and separate the person from the message, its not imperative that you like Trump, but his message is his message, a smart person wouldn't disagree with a message from Trump that they would otherwise agree with if someone else said the same exact thing. Take the message for what it worth because the message isn't any more wrong or any more correct by coming out of the mouth of a person you either like or dislike. Trump is polarizing, don't be polarized so much that you fail to see the message and what he's trying to accomplish should he win the election.
Will Trump accomplish all he says he will? Most likely not, he's fibbing quite a bit but thats what all politicians do, they fib to get votes, the bottom line is that what he does while in office is all that matters, what he SAYS now is just to try and get elected, don't confuse the two.
Hillary is essentially Obama, which means a vote for Hillary is a vote for the idea that things are fine in the country and we don't want change, so, if you feel America doesn't need much improving, than Hillary is your gal, if you think we need some changes, you might want to consider the orange fellow.
I feel that many anti Trump people are angry at HIM and not really angry at his message, if someone they liked personally had the same exact message, it would be all good.
Sorry don't like him or his message and wouldn't care who was advancing them, which makes it easy for me to back Hillary despite everything that she and Bill stand for.
Sorry don't like him or his message and wouldn't care who was advancing them, which makes it easy for me to back Hillary despite everything that she and Bill stand for.
You know, now that I see somebody besides myself post to this thread, I'm going to reinstate my initial post which I immediately deleted as I get pounced on routinely for expressing my dislike for Trump as the pro-Trump faction here seems to now outnumber and are more vocal than the anti-Trump folks.
I do appreciate the OP's reasoning in attempt to appeal to those who may be on-the-fence in a calm and thoughtful manner instead of the condescension and derisive language that many of us get slammed with when saying anything against the "orange fellow."
You do make a persuasive argument as i have had this same conversation with friends.
I have voted for Republican presidents for about 35 years until 2008. I've always been a very moderate conservative. However, recently in my old age, I've become more liberal. But that aside, I'd gladly support a moderate Republican.
But yes, I do agree with some of Trump's message. Sure, if it were another running for the office with the same message and stance, I may have considered voting for that candidate. However, for me, I can't separate the man from the message in this circumstance.
As I've said in numerous posts here, I Think Trump as person is just too dangerous and reckless to be president. I've been following him since the early 1980s and I considered him despicable back then and even more so now.
A conservative friend told me the other day that she's never seen the country more divided and blames it all on Obama. She truly believes that he is by far the worst president this country has every had. We are both baby-boomers, btw, and about the same age as Trump and Hillary. However, I asked her if she can image how much more divided we'd be if Trump were president? She had to think about it for a few minutes but finally did relent and had to agree with me that Trump's entire campaign is based on DIVISION. I asked her if she could imagine how much more divided this country will be in four years after Trump's first term? But she went back to her original Trump talking-point saying "well, Trump says he will unite us and bring us all together." Sure, he "says" that. But don't actions speak louder than words? So far, his campaign has been full of race-baiting and dog whistle politics ...and he isn't even in office yet! He spends more than half his time patting himself on the back and bragging, yes, even more so than Obama.
So no, I won't be voting for Trump no matter how much I might agree with his stances or his message. The man has the behavior of a 12-year old, he believes he's near perfect as a human being, never in life has made a mistake that warrants an apology, he is reckless and immature, he is unpredictable (and no, that's not always a good thing as he claims), is undiplomatic and inconsistent in his beliefs.
Is he strong and has the strength that America needs? No, I don't think so. Yes, America needs a strong leader. For me, it's not Trump. The economy will go into a deep recession and the stock market will plummet (the market does not like unpredictability of any kind) and he will lead us into world wars because of his reckless behavior.
Yes, I know that everybody is going to say that we can say the same thing (and worse) about Hillary and especially about Obama (he's a narcissist, brags a lot, etc., etc.) but for me, I will not vote for "the orange fellow" no matter how great his polices, stances, or message may be.
~amanda
Yes, I know that everybody is going to say that we can say the same thing (and worse) about Hillary and especially about Obama (he's a narcissist, brags a lot, etc., etc.) but for me, I will not vote for "the orange fellow" no matter how great his polices, stances, or message may be.
~amanda
Personally, not voting for the coolest person in the room, just the person who will lead the government best, that being the case then my vote goes to Mrs. Clinton.
Best pal? I would vote for Trump... nope, not even then.
Anyway, I was wondering what happen to your post. Glad you got it back up.
I feel that many anti Trump people are angry at HIM and not really angry at his message, if someone they liked personally had the same exact message, it would be all good.
As a person who likes to think he's smart on occasion, i feel that separating the person from the message is important. Is it really imperative to like a person personally if their message is strong and they'll do a fine job fixing things that need to be fixed?
Well, not me. I am not angry with Agent Orange; I don't even know him.
If Clinton was saying the exact same things he's saying then I couldn't vote for her.
Also, the people running for office are judged as a total package; ideas and their delivery.
His delivery is petulant, childish, and egomaniacal (and I don't agree with most of what he says).
Unfortunately, with trump the person IS the message. His message is me, me, me, combined with a total lack of understanding of the complexities of world relationships, disdain for everyone but himself, complete lack of self control, grade school histrionics about anything he can tweet into oblivion, disastrous economic policies (what little detail we've gotten), and cult of hate mongering. How on earth can we separate him from that collection of phlegm? Can't do it.
Unfortunately, with trump the person IS the message. His message is me, me, me, combined with a total lack of understanding of the complexities of world relationships, disdain for everyone but himself, complete lack of self control, grade school histrionics about anything he can tweet into oblivion, disastrous economic policies (what little detail we've gotten), and cult of hate mongering. How on earth can we separate him from that collection of phlegm? Can't do it.
If I'd try to be kind to Trump and ignore his fear mongering and hate-promoting nonsense, what's left are the nationalists ideas that he can't even present correctly. I'm a globalist, and as such, I oppose American nationalism. I've been told on this board that this means that I hate America and want to destroy it (just like Obama and Clinton I suppose), but I simply believe in "common good" for every person on Earth, not just for Americans. I'm not religious, but I believe this is a very Christian value, so it always surprises me how some people can be Christians and think that one nation deserves better than others.
Anyway... Trump is so opposite to either of these ideas (Globalism or Christianity) that I can't vote for his message.
If I'd try to be kind to Trump and ignore his fear mongering and hate-promoting nonsense, what's left are the nationalists ideas that he can't even present correctly. I'm a globalist, and as such, I oppose American nationalism. I've been told on this board that this means that I hate America and want to destroy it (just like Obama and Clinton I suppose), but I simply believe in "common good" for every person on Earth, not just for Americans. I'm not religious, but I believe this is a very Christian value, so it always surprises me how some people can be Christians and think that one nation deserves better than others.
Anyway... Trump is so opposite to either of these ideas (Globalism or Christianity) that I can't vote for his message.
No one says we deserve better.
However, BECAUSE we have been a blessed nation we have done more good for the world than any other nation in the history of the world.
Not the US Government of course, but individual Americans, because we have thrived as a Nation.
However, BECAUSE we have been a blessed nation we have done more good for the world than any other nation in the history of the world.
I think a lot of people outside of USA will disagree. And if you want to invoke "history of the world" I would start with Greeks and Romans. They weren't perfect, but they gave us western culture, values and sciences. USA gave us internet, cars and lots of other great things, as well as, most importantly (to me) an idea that a person can be of any background, race or heritage, but as long as he/she works hard, he can achieve great things.
Now, of course, there were also Persians, ancient Chinese and other great nations and cultures, and I'm not going to decide which one is "better".
I know I get off topic really fast on these threads.... but this was about message, which to me is about values, so I spoke about mine.
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