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Old 07-18-2016, 02:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...because they want amnesty for their illegal amigos and an open border with Mexico.
You like that word "amigos" don't you? Do you refer to African Americans as "the brothers" and Asians as "fellow orientals"?


Just a historical fact, when "New Spain" declared their independence 34 years after the colonists of British North America declared their independence, they expected the USA to be their greatest ally. Many of the political leaders had lived in the USA, in particular in New Orleans. The country's name was "United States of Mexico" chosen in a deliberate sign of respect. Much of the political organization and ideology was based on the USA.

Most of the acceptable form of money came from Mexico in the form of silver dollars. The First Bank of the United States, chartered for a term of twenty years, by the United States Congress on February 25, 1791 followed by the the Second Bank of the United States, had a 20-year charter starting from February 1816. Neither of these banks outlived their charter. The Spanish dollar was the coin upon which the original United States dollar was based, and it remained legal tender in the United States until the Coinage Act of 1857.

Many of the founders of Mexico were shocked by the aggression that the USA showed towards the new republics.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,230 posts, read 14,246,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I have been saying this along. The Latino vote is not significant enough yet to pander to them as so many Democrats and some Republicans are doing. They need to appeal more to the non-Latino white voter.
But is it pandering?
That's the real question. Hispanics are now an integral part of our political system, and have been a part for a long time now.

Choosing someone like Castro, a young proven leader with lots of appeal in all ways, not just his heritage, is a good choice with an eye to the future of his party. The Republicans have their own young Hispanic leaders, too- after all, who came in second to Trump?

Cruz' heritage wasn't any problem in his supporters. They were significantly non-Hispanic. And Cruz made no special attempts at pandering to voters of his heritage.

But do not discount the importance of any motivated minority in this country.

When enough issues affect any minority directly, one response is turning out to register and vote.

That's exactly what the Irish, the Germans, the Poles, the Italians, the Jews, and the other big groups of immigrants and minorities became political powers of their own in the past. Today is no different at all in this respect.

The Hispanic minority is the largest in the nation, and they have been affronted mightily over the past 4 years. Do not expect them to remain passive forever. No minority has ever remained passive in this nation forever.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,871 posts, read 6,567,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I have been saying this along. The Latino vote is not significant enough yet to pander to them as so many Democrats and some Republicans are doing. They need to appeal more to the non-Latino white voter.

You know, Pete Wilson thought the same way back in 1994 when he was running for reelection for governor of California. He did what you suggested - and managed to win. Unfortunately he lost the war - after that California has gone decisively against the Republicans ever since. And Trump is replicating the Wilson strategy on a national basis. And since Latinos are a growing demographic, it's not a smart way to go politically. And of course from a moral standpoint, it's dumb to be exclusionary as opposed to inclusive.

Funny, it's "pandering" when it's a non-white voter, but "appealing" when it's a non-Hispanic white voter. Something of a double standard, eh?

The trick is to appeal to as many groups as possible without turning off or alienating other key groups. Problem is that the Republicans are committing long-term electoral suicide - pandering (yes, let's be clear here) to non-Hispanic whites by using xenophobic fear mongering. Now in Florida, even the very conservative Cuban Americans are getting turned off of Trump.
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Old 07-18-2016, 12:00 PM
 
9,801 posts, read 10,039,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
The Hispanic minority is the largest in the nation, and they have been affronted mightily over the past 4 years. Do not expect them to remain passive forever. No minority has ever remained passive in this nation forever.
The Black population had shifted largely from Republican to Democrat for a three decade period. The Civil rights Act of 1964 proved to be significant in that only 6% the black population in that election only voted for the GOP candidate. Despite some significant black Republicans, the core black population has never deviated from loyalty to the Democratic party.

But two things are very significant. Congressional opposition the the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was largely divided along geographic lines. The 11 states that had been part of the Confederacy largely voted against the act, regardless of being Democratic or Republican. The majority of congressmen in the other 39 states voted for the act, once again regardless of party affiliation. But the GOP congressional candidate, Barry Goldwater was against the act, and he ended up winning only 5 former Confederacy states plus Arizona.


Latinos, like blacks of the 1940's-1950's can be said to "lean Democrat" with GW Bush nearly balancing out Democratic lead by 2004. As everyone saw, there were two prominent Latinos in the GOP run for POTUS, and one gringo who speaks fluent Spanish
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Old 07-18-2016, 05:09 PM
 
36,230 posts, read 16,197,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The Black population had shifted largely from Republican to Democrat for a three decade period. The Civil rights Act of 1964 proved to be significant in that only 6% the black population in that election only voted for the GOP candidate. Despite some significant black Republicans, the core black population has never deviated from loyalty to the Democratic party.

But two things are very significant. Congressional opposition the the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was largely divided along geographic lines. The 11 states that had been part of the Confederacy largely voted against the act, regardless of being Democratic or Republican. The majority of congressmen in the other 39 states voted for the act, once again regardless of party affiliation. But the GOP congressional candidate, Barry Goldwater was against the act, and he ended up winning only 5 former Confederacy states plus Arizona.


Latinos, like blacks of the 1940's-1950's can be said to "lean Democrat" with GW Bush nearly balancing out Democratic lead by 2004. As everyone saw, there were two prominent Latinos in the GOP run for POTUS, and one gringo who speaks fluent Spanish

What's the significance of a gringo candidate or any other candidate that can speak Spanish? You have to be a citizen to vote and one is required to know English to become a naturalized citizen.
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,230 posts, read 14,246,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
What's the significance of a gringo candidate or any other candidate that can speak Spanish? You have to be a citizen to vote and one is required to know English to become a naturalized citizen.
Speaking to someone in their primary tongue always helps the speaker when it comes to minority politics.
Both Bushes, George and Jeb showed their tolerance by doing so, and were rewarded by votes that may not have come otherwise.

And we all remember just how narrow Bush's first victory was. Literally every vote counted in the end of that one.

No candidate has to speak to a Hispanic crowd in Spanish, of course, but it's proven to be a good political move more than once.
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Old 07-20-2016, 05:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
No candidate has to speak to a Hispanic crowd in Spanish, of course, but it's proven to be a good political move more than once.
Spanish speakers in the USA have surpassed in numbers both Spain and Colombia. US has 41 million native speakers plus 11 million who are bilingual. Compared to Colombia (48 million) and Spain (46 million) and second only to Mexico (121 million).
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...eaking-country


.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:01 AM
 
11,758 posts, read 5,521,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
So, the critical undecided vote for the 2016 election is "white, not latino".
While we can whack up the demographics any way we want, OP's "white, not Latino" theory is oversimplified in that white women, college-educated whites, Jews, white LBGTQ, white Muslims, white handicapped folks, white environmentalists, white free-traders, etc., etc. are all included in that white, not Latino bucket, but Mr. Trump does very poorly among those white subgroups. And we know that there are materially more registered Democrats and lean-Democrat Independents than registered Republicans and lean-Republican independents.

Everyone's vote has the same weight. I don't think any group is "critical," particularly since we already know by now which group prefers which party. It will boil down to turnout.

Mick
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:23 AM
 
6,922 posts, read 2,467,877 times
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Trump can milk the white blue collar vote for all its worth, but if he isn't able to cross the diploma divide and do much better with white college grads than he's currently polling, he doesn't have a chance. Only 1 in 3 voters in 2016 are expected to be white non-college.

Last edited by Bureaucat; 07-20-2016 at 07:32 AM..
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:08 AM
 
36,230 posts, read 16,197,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
Spanish speakers in the USA have surpassed in numbers both Spain and Colombia. US has 41 million native speakers plus 11 million who are bilingual. Compared to Colombia (48 million) and Spain (46 million) and second only to Mexico (121 million).
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...eaking-country


.

But again I reiterate that one has to know English to become a citizen and only citizens can vote so why do some politicians pander to them in Spanish? Native born Hispanics would naturally know English.
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