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Old 07-14-2016, 12:56 PM
 
11,331 posts, read 8,382,787 times
Reputation: 7012

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
That isn't true.......many do care and are voting third party.
And what good will that do?

Nader really helped Al Gore in Florida. That 97000+ votes might have helped in that debacle.


Unless and until a 3rd party can get 40 % of the vote what good will a 3rd. party do. If 3rd party voters can't stand either party, then the fastest way to make change is from within the party they most agree with. If Sanders can get his crowd involved in the Democratic party, they can take it over in 2 cycles.

John Anderson could have been working for the Kennedy's or the Republicans to take out Carter. That brouhaha in the democratic primary assured Reagan's election.

Good luck with your 3rd party. It will elect the one you least agree with.
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Old 07-14-2016, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,241 posts, read 11,488,182 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
One could argue Clinton lost the election against Obama because Obama was able to make it appear that he had huge crowds of support.

Are you saying Clintons have learned nothing from their failures?
One could point out that Hillary Clinton got more votes in 2008 than Barack Obama did and destroy that argument.

One could also secondarily point out that Clinton also beat Bernie Sanders, who has gotten far larger crowds than trump.
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Old 07-14-2016, 11:23 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,387,346 times
Reputation: 9358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
One could point out that Hillary Clinton got more votes in 2008 than Barack Obama did and destroy that argument.

One could also secondarily point out that Clinton also beat Bernie Sanders, who has gotten far larger crowds than trump.
no, it actually doesnt.. unless we elect people based upon a popular vote, which we dont..
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:37 AM
 
7,186 posts, read 2,742,521 times
Reputation: 3172
I saw an ad... some dork riding around on his horse, with a long gun on his hand, voice-over talking about how trump will take back American... it looked and smelled like a pro-trump ad... then, at the last second, they guy says basically "vote for me"... not even what he's running for, just vote for him. huh?
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:37 AM
 
78,175 posts, read 33,318,948 times
Reputation: 15632
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
And what good will that do?
For you? Nothing.

Quote:
Nader really helped Al Gore in Florida. That 97000+ votes might have helped in that debacle.
We have to do this over and over and over. You are assuming they wanted Gore to win. They did not or they would have voted that way. They wanted Nader to win as they felt he was the best candidate.

People are under zero obligation to vote the way you want them to.

Quote:
Unless and until a 3rd party can get 40 % of the vote what good will a 3rd. party do. If 3rd party voters can't stand either party, then the fastest way to make change is from within the party they most agree with. If Sanders can get his crowd involved in the Democratic party, they can take it over in 2 cycles.
Sanders has found out that there is no changing his party from within. The only thing that possibly can change a party is losing.

Quote:
John Anderson could have been working for the Kennedy's or the Republicans to take out Carter. That brouhaha in the democratic primary assured Reagan's election.
God could have came down and campaigned with Carter and he still would have lost that election.

Quote:
Good luck with your 3rd party. It will elect the one you least agree with.
Maybe but I can't bring myself to vote for Trump.
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:47 AM
 
7,186 posts, read 2,742,521 times
Reputation: 3172
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
For you? Nothing.



We have to do this over and over and over. You are assuming they wanted Gore to win. They did not or they would have voted that way. They wanted Nader to win as they felt he was the best candidate.

People are under zero obligation to vote the way you want them to.



Sanders has found out that there is no changing his party from within. The only thing that possibly can change a party is losing.



God could have came down and campaigned with Carter and he still would have lost that election.



Maybe but I can't bring myself to vote for Trump.
One very true thing - you can't force people to vote the way you want. Some people are more interested in voting for a candidate that they can believe in than in winning. This cycle may well set up the future for a third party, and the demise of the fatally fractured republican party.

And the second bolded - losing didn't help the republican party change themselves, other than to further split it along some terribly entrenched ideological lines. The news lately about their platform indicates that they have retreated from change, and are ignoring the clear indications that the demographics are strongly against their platform.
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:53 AM
 
78,175 posts, read 33,318,948 times
Reputation: 15632
Quote:
Originally Posted by kat in aiken View Post
One very true thing - you can't force people to vote the way you want. Some people are more interested in voting for a candidate that they can believe in than in winning. This cycle may well set up the future for a third party, and the demise of the fatally fractured republican party.

And the second bolded - losing didn't help the republican party change themselves, other than to further split it along some terribly entrenched ideological lines. The news lately about their platform indicates that they have retreated from change, and are ignoring the clear indications that the demographics are strongly against their platform.
Losing the House and Senate didn't seem to change the (D)'s either. I should amend my previous statement. The only thing that might work is continually losing.
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