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If you read my post carefully, I think you will see that I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I simply pointed out that claims made without rational justification tend to make me even more skeptical of the claim.
I'm also noticing that this thread is quickly going down if flames. It's just emotional outbursts without rational debate. I can't say I'm very surprised, but it is a bit disheartening.
Do you agree that Hillary is a liar and should be in prison?
Personally I think Hillary is a liar and opportunist. All politicians are. The worst I can see Trump doing is working to fix the economy, shrink government and enforce laws already on the books. We are going to war no matter what - and we've been at war during the entire Obama administration. He loves his country and is not a politician. Trump it is.
Last edited by illtaketwoplease; 07-14-2016 at 08:24 AM..
I know this is probably hopeless, but I'd like to see a rational, evidence-based discussion of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. I'm not a mod, so I can't really enforce any rules in this thread, but for what it's worth I will ask: Please, if you make any claim for or against either candidate, please, please, please include some rational argument, evidence, or at least a reference to some article that clearly offers this rational argumentation/evidence. It is outrageously easy to assert claims and vent one's emotions, but generally a lot harder to back up claims with rational/evidence-based arguments. I'm specifically looking for the BEST arguments/evidence for/against these two candidates.
To get the ball rolling, I think this article favoring Clinton is a good example of someone who is backing up their claims. I'd like to see similarly thoughtful discussions for/against each candidate, if possible.
Notice how you have very few responses to this? Not surprising because people do not typically come to forums like this to have a rational discussion or to review the facts. Most people come here to vent their emotions and to find and commiserate with like-minded. Facts and critical thinking are "boring" to many people. Believe it or not.
Can't say that I am truly able to answer your question either though. Especially for Donald Trump it is a lot harder because he has no track record in office, so it is harder to analyze his positions and to assess his competence.
I did find one web site that has some factual comparisons and as far as I can tell, appears to be relatively unbiased. Take a look and see what you think.
In regards to Hillary, I do not think she should be president. Don't get me wrong; she's certainly qualified, and like many people who are deeply dissatisfied with this election, I think whoever the person nominated by the party I typically lean towards would be better than the other side, which for me is Clinton. For some, it's Trump, and I can respect that. Many who are voting Democrat or Republican this year are doing so reluctantly, out of sheer disdain for the other side. That said, I will not be voting for Hillary Clinton.
She embodies political corruptions. Her presence is damn near mechanical. She takes money from whoever will give it to her. She'll voice whatever opinion she thinks will get her farther. And look, I know Sanders, whom I respect, did his little "I'm sick of hearing about your damn emails" thing (which can I just say shows that he was by far the best candidate from the major parties, none on either side showed that level of humanity to any other candidate let alone the one who probably deserves the most amount of scrutiny; disagree with him on whatever you want, he was the best human that ran) but they are significant. A string of curious events led up to the FBI giving a story, one that didn't even match up with Clinton's, that basically says "she just didn't know" and even if we're to accept that as truth, that's an excuse that would never work for anyone else. As it goes, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Ignoring that a former senator, Secretary of State, and lawyer would realistically be pretty up to speed on the law, the fact that she got away with this isn't simply luck. There's just no way. And up until that point, she had my vote. As I said, I reluctantly determined that she was the lesser of two evils. But I cannot, in good conciseness, reward this level of corruption that goes well beyond that of a typical politician and I'd be curious to hear how a Hillary supporter can. And I don't mean that as an insult, I'm genuinely curious.
With all that said, Trump's certainly not getting my vote. He's a short tempered salesman. That's about it. He lacks any political experience. He lacks consistency on his political views, and I'm not just referring to comments he made in 1990. He can change his mind within hours. He's decisive and rude and turns our already sickening political process into even more of a charade. Simply put, I don't see a single thing about Donald that's presidential. And I know, he's not like the Washington hacks, but he kind of is. He pulls similar stunts, he just calls you a **** while he does. He's not politically correct. He's a short fingered vulgarian, and people like that because it makes him seem like he's not a politician. But he is. He uses the same sales tactic, except anyone can sell mild mannered, intelligent dialogue Obama. Trump is successfully selling an angry, bloated, billionaire. To the man's credit, if Obama acted like Trump, I don't think he'd be able to convince many to vote for him. But Trump is a pretty smart guy and can sell you anything. What else is a salesman other than someone trying to sell you something you don't even need. What better way to describe the man's candidacy?
Personally I think Hillary is a liar and opportunist. All politicians are. The worst I can see Trump doing is working to fix the economy and enforcing laws already on the books. We are going to war no matter what - and we've been at war during the entire Obama administration. He loves his country and is not a politician. Trump it is.
He loves his country to the extent of a penthouse apartment and compound in Florida. You surely don't actually believe Trump gives a chit for a rural Kentuckian eking out a living while Trump gets his stuff manufactured in China?
Your basic con man carnival barker has more personal integrity than Trump.
Either of the two contenders aren't fit to walk across the threshold of 1600 Penn. Ave. much less enter the rear to scrub a floor.
In regards to Hillary, I do not think she should be president. Don't get me wrong; she's certainly qualified, and like many people who are deeply dissatisfied with this election, I think whoever the person nominated by the party I typically lean towards would be better than the other side, which for me is Clinton. For some, it's Trump, and I can respect that. Many who are voting Democrat or Republican this year are doing so reluctantly, out of sheer disdain for the other side. That said, I will not be voting for Hillary Clinton.
She embodies political corruptions. Her presence is damn near mechanical. She takes money from whoever will give it to her. She'll voice whatever opinion she thinks will get her farther. And look, I know Sanders, whom I respect, did his little "I'm sick of hearing about your damn emails" thing (which can I just say shows that he was by far the best candidate from the major parties, none on either side showed that level of humanity to any other candidate let alone the one who probably deserves the most amount of scrutiny; disagree with him on whatever you want, he was the best human that ran) but they are significant. A string of curious events led up to the FBI giving a story, one that didn't even match up with Clinton's, that basically says "she just didn't know" and even if we're to accept that as truth, that's an excuse that would never work for anyone else. As it goes, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Ignoring that a former senator, Secretary of State, and lawyer would realistically be pretty up to speed on the law, the fact that she got away with this isn't simply luck. There's just no way. And up until that point, she had my vote. As I said, I reluctantly determined that she was the lesser of two evils. But I cannot, in good conciseness, reward this level of corruption that goes well beyond that of a typical politician and I'd be curious to hear how a Hillary supporter can. And I don't mean that as an insult, I'm genuinely curious.
With all that said, Trump's certainly not getting my vote. He's a short tempered salesman. That's about it. He lacks any political experience. He lacks consistency on his political views, and I'm not just referring to comments he made in 1990. He can change his mind within hours. He's decisive and rude and turns our already sickening political process into even more of a charade. Simply put, I don't see a single thing about Donald that's presidential. And I know, he's not like the Washington hacks, but he kind of is. He pulls similar stunts, he just calls you a **** while he does. He's not politically correct. He's a short fingered vulgarian, and people like that because it makes him seem like he's not a politician. But he is. He uses the same sales tactic, except anyone can sell mild mannered, intelligent dialogue Obama. Trump is successfully selling an angry, bloated, billionaire. To the man's credit, if Obama acted like Trump, I don't think he'd be able to convince many to vote for him. But Trump is a pretty smart guy and can sell you anything. What else is a salesman other than someone trying to sell you something you don't even need. What better way to describe the man's candidacy?
Good post that I agree with for the most part.
I was so disappointed in Sanders for endorsing Clinton.
Unfortunately, I'll be skipping the POTUS race on my November ballot.
He loves his country to the extent of a penthouse apartment and compound in Florida. You surely don't actually believe Trump gives a chit for a rural Kentuckian eking out a living while Trump gets his stuff manufactured in China?
Your basic con man carnival barker has more personal integrity than Trump.
Either of the two contenders aren't fit to walk across the threshold of 1600 Penn. Ave. much less enter the rear to scrub a floor.
I don't think it's emotional to say that Trumps temperament is not Presidential. I guess I could go through the Republican debates and every news conference and add up how many times and how many different people he's insulted or ridiculed, but why bother? It's obvious to any objective person. His first inclination is to insult people and brag. That's not Presidential temperament or someone I want standing as a symbol for my country. Regardless of Hillary's dishonesty, he cannot be allowed to hold the highest elected office in the land. It would be a national embarrassment.
I don't think it's emotional to say that Trumps temperament is not Presidential. I guess I could go through the Republican debates and every news conference and add up how many times and how many different people he's insulted or ridiculed, but why bother? It's obvious to any objective person. His first inclination is to insult people and brag. That's not Presidential temperament or someone I want standing as a symbol for my country. Regardless of Hillary's dishonesty, he cannot be allowed to hold the highest elected office in the land. It would be a national embarrassment.
Electing a woman who lied to the American people in regards to national security and broke laws would be a national embarrassment, but some people put party first and lack integrity.
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