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That is your morals.
And you have absolutely no more right to dictate your morals in a secular society than I have.
You presume to judge me??? Where do you get the arrogant presumption to judge me?!?!
We live in a country made of over 300 million people, ranging from the far left to the far right, and several millions in between. We are the most diverse country on the face of the planet, and there is no damn way on earth that we could possibly secure the wide ranging beliefs of every religious group that exists in our country. To assume that we could be be idiotic.
You have your religious beliefs. Ironically enough, I actually share your beliefs on this specific topic.
BUT THIS TOPIC IS RELIGIOUS MORE THAN SECULAR!!!
And our government is a secular one, since it cannot be based on any one religious belief!!! Did you not learn that in high school?!?!?!
If you'd like to live in a country in which the laws of the land were based solely on a religious text, then I've got several countries in which you could move... mainly in the middle east.
SO get off your high horse (or the cross), grab a dose of reality and focus on than things that can be changed... and stop forcing your morality onto others. Your sanctimony is obnoxious and repellant.
Government deciding who is or is not a person is not a religious matter.
In fact, except that the state takes upon itself the authority of a god in making this decision, it has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
Question: if, as you seem to assert, religious individuals have no right to limit the actions of the state, then who does have this right?
If you don't think abortion isn't a religious topic, or doesn't fall along side party lines, or isn't very, very biased either for or against a specific religious beliefs for a majority of the masses, then you don't deserve to be on the internet.
And by calling abortion murder, does show a religious bias, no matter what you may say.
And I'll say it again... I'm pro-life. So please try to recall that when posting responses to me.
And nothing you just said I disagree with, with the exception of the "people trying to force their religion on others" is asinine." comment. Your own bias shows when you make comments like this. Some people do not share your belief in this. And it matters not one big damn whether you think they are wrong or not, they don't have to share your belief in this. It is their right in a secular country to have it.
And you can tell them that they are wrong, which is your right.
And they can tell you to F*** Off, which is their right in this secular country & government.
But back to the original topic, I couldn't give a frog's fat ass about Pence's stance on this one topic. You may have your priorities different than mine, which is (again) your right. I also have the right call you a bloody I$%#@t for thinking that this one topic, which will likely never change in my grandkids' lifetimes, will ever be up for change. And the fact that there are at least one dozen other topics that can change in the next presidency that can affect you from day one is a hell of a lot more important to your daily lives than a women's right to choose.
Which, when it comes right to do it, is not your decision to make. If you believe it is a sin, you can tell them that. And if there is a God (in which I do believe) and He feels this is a sin, then they will answer for it at the time of their judgement - AND NOT YOU!!!!
So stay out of the F'ing lives, and focus on your own!
I'll stand by my comment, because at the end of the day we have made it legal to kill a human being based on the fact that they aren't yet born. You don't have to point to any religion to make the compelling case that is plain wrong.
As to your sentiments on what a waste of time it is to focus on things we cannot effect when there are SO MANY issues that are directly in the voters' hands this election is a point well made and I agree 100%.
poverty is more due to illegal immigration lack of jobs and lack of funds to uplift the poor because people spend way too much on prisons keeping killers alive and not implementing the death penalty and keeping prisons in general expensive. I have a cousin in jail and he gets on facebook. There's no way he should be on facebook in prison....
Poverty isn't a good excuse for killing someone it just isn't.
So you're pro-life, but support the death penalty?
Government deciding who is or is not a person is not a religious matter.
You honestly believe that a person's religion - or lack thereof - will not have any affect on their descision, should you poll them on this topic?
I want an honest answer. Not one from your heart or soul, but your head and your logical, rational reasoning..."Will a person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) have a major effect on their decision if asked about whether abortion was murder?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
In fact, except that the state takes upon itself the authority of a god in making this decision, it has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
Question: if, as you seem to assert, religious individuals have no right to limit the actions of the state, then who does have this right?
I made no assertion whatsoever. We are a government of, by, and for the people. Ideally, our representatives make laws based on the will of the people. In most cases, this works well. But in the abortion debate, it becomes more complex, based on the idea that a majority of people will use either their religious beliefs concerning life and its conception, or their beliefs of the individual over said fetus.
The only assertion I made was concerning the fact that our government is a secular one, and cannot be influenced by any specific religious affiliation - which (for the most part) tends to abhor the idea of abortion.
I think some ofd you are missing the point of my texts, mainly because its a pretty complex topic.
Personally, I'm pro-life. I truly believe life begins at conception. And I hate the idea of abortion being used as a post-coital form of birth control. These are my beliefs based on my religion, as well as my knowledge and degrees in the health sciences.
But I have no right to tell another person that they must endure carrying a fetus to full term. There could be complications that could lead to extremes problems (including death for the mother). It could lead to hardship, that I might not possibly fathom. I could list a few more off the top of my head and still miss all of the reason s why I have no right to tell another person "you must do this". It's not my place.
And neither is it yours.
I have enough science to debate both sides of the fence concerning the conception topic. And I frankly have mixed feelings about it. But because this is a true unknown, then we cannot factually claim thus. And therefore I cannot say to another person that might have this issue, you must not do what you're thinking as I can prove it's wrong. And frankly neither can any of you, unless of course you're arrogant enough to claim you know perfectly the mind of God.
So this topic is truly an individual choice and should be left up to the person. If they will be judged, then that's their problem. Not yours.
Frankly, (and this is extremely hard to say) I would like to think that society might benefit from more access to it.
So you're pro-life, but support the death penalty?
That's...
Well, that's interesting.
Jesus... You must have never met too many people from the Southern US...
Virtually everyone down here believes just that. That life begins at conception and should be cherished. but the SOB that raped and killed your sister should get a date with ole Sparky until his eyes melt.
Yeah, let's equate innocent lives with those that take innocence away...
Yes, Mike Pence is really pro-life. The only exception he supports is the life of the mother. Raped or the victim of incest?--too bad--no abortion in Mike Pence's world.
"Pence has signed legislation that restricts abortion in all circumstances except for the life of the mother — meaning no exemptions for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest. That’s a key difference from the top of the ticket: Trump has said that he wants to restrict abortion, but backs those three exceptions."
He's been a disaster for the state of IN with his religious social agenda. He supports the Constitution when it suits his agenda. For example, his workers deleted negative posts on his official government FB page. (What happened to free speech?) He attempted to start a state run news agency as the sole source of state press releases. (No more questions from journalists/free press). He attempted to stop a Catholic organization from helping refugees relocate in the state. He lost that one. At the same time he supported the ugly RFRA law (one can use religion to discriminate against GLTB).
He barely won (only 3%) on the coat tails of a well-respected governor in a frequently Republican state. The last poll I saw had him in a statistical tie for the governor's race.
Jesus... You must have never met too many people from the Southern US...
Virtually everyone down here believes just that. That life begins at conception and should be cherished. but the SOB that raped and killed your sister should get a date with ole Sparky until his eyes melt.
Yeah, let's equate innocent lives with those that take innocence away...
I like that idea. Either all lives matter, or they don't. I'm not saying set a killer free and let them run amok in public again. Definitely keep them locked away. We need to decide what's more important. All human life, or electrocuting someone til their eyes melt.
Well then you're worst than those who are pro abortion.
As you know it's murder of innocent children and you're more concerned of education or healthcare.
That's the decay of society when murder is legal. It will always be the top priority because my sense of decency and morality has no disappeared like yours appears to have...
Way far down after that is death penalty and then immigration. Alll that mentioned is a symptom not an actual problem unless you get to the source. But it's so unfortunate to be that obtuse that you don't see it's even the source. Too bad.
Those " innocent children" you are concerned about will need healthcare and education.
It would take a supermajority of Congress to agree to an amendment and then 38 states to ratify it.
POTUS has no say in the matter.
VP only gets to vote in the Senate in the event of a tie.
Last edited by middle-aged mom; 07-17-2016 at 07:22 AM..
I'm just wondering is he prolife in all cases except maybe life? Or is pro-abortion like trump? I hear he hates gays and stuff like trump but no actual information about his actual stance on abortion just what he's pushed forward but not like his beliefs on when abortion is permissible. Does anyone have a link showing his beliefs on this issue?
What does that mean?
If you are asking if you can find something that shows he is willing to sign a law that is one of the most restrictive about abortion in the nation, that also makes mothers of babies who were miscarried have funerals, yes, he did sign that. So, that seems to put him on the oddly named "pro-life" side of town. If he didn't think that was a good stance, he would have vetoed the law, don't you think?
If he's "pro-life in all cases except maybe life"... I suppose you could take that to mean, yeah, he's for sticking his nose in a woman's private business before and during her pregnancy, but once there is a delivered "life", he doesn't much care any more.
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