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Old 07-16-2016, 11:28 AM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,892,008 times
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I'm not voting for Trump but since I see the last two presidents as being an absolute failure, I see Trump not being presidential as a positive.

I also see the GOP not being his fan as a positive also.

I believe many who are voting for him see it the same way.

 
Old 07-16-2016, 11:28 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,347 posts, read 16,993,182 times
Reputation: 36949
The Democrats are busy making stupid statements and bizarre accusations about the Republican choice for VP.

Wait till you see what we Republicans have to say about their pick!

Let the Games Begin!
 
Old 07-16-2016, 11:30 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,215,871 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The Democrats are busy making stupid statements and bizarre accusations about the Republican choice for VP.

Wait till you see what we Republicans have to say about their pick!

Let the Games Begin!
It's to be expected really.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 11:46 AM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,527,625 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
Oh please . Every election every right wingers sings the song that if their candidate doesn't win the U.S. will turn into Beirut circa 1983. Neither candidate is going to be able to achieve much. Which limits the amount of good and bad they will do.
It certainly limits the amount of good. No denying that. Turkey has been in the news and now all we hear from the left is gobble, gobble, gobble.
"Trust me" crooked Hillary says but what has she done to rebuild the trust. Gobble, gobble, gobble.
Someone who's greatest achievement has been special treatment and a double standard to avoid criminal prosecution and is still under FBI investigation.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,809 posts, read 6,897,136 times
Reputation: 20953
What Bill Kristol, George Will and the other Republicans Against Trump (aka R.A.T.s) are failing to acknowledge is this:

Trump has gotten more votes than any other candidate in Republican primary history. Lots of disillusioned folks who gave up on voting years ago are turning out for Trump in force. Kristol and his ilk are perfectly comfortable with career politicians who don't live up to their promises, create laws that they themselves are exempt from, and institute policies that benefit their donors and not their constituents. Just as long as they "act presidential" and hide their true personalities behind a carefully crafted facade, they are A-OK in their little neverTrump world. The arrogance of them assuming they know more than the 13 million who voted for Trump is astounding.

I think they are in for a HUUGE awakening come November.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 12:01 PM
 
416 posts, read 258,549 times
Reputation: 423
Lot's of interesting deflections regarding the context of the article. Frankly i don't see Pence as a plus or a minus, simply someone to fill the slot...much like the dems will do. I was merely responding to the volumes of minutia floating about here and across the net regarding Pence.

The bigger questions are regarding the numbers of republicans who see Trump with complete and total disdain. Who is this world would ever have predicted George Will telling voters they must stop Trump. That's got to be disconcerting for righties far and wide.

As far as this election not being about Trump, but the will of the people (or something akin to that), the argument works for the primary, but falls on it's face in the general election. You cannot separate the two when the candidates face off, especially when you know Trump will behave like he has all alone.

I get it, there's plenty of you who will rejoice when he goes after Hillary with a meat cleaver in the debates. Unfortunately that will turn off more of the voters than it will energize. Here's why that matters: Those that love Hillary will vote for her, those love Donald will vote for him. Those undecided will see Trump as a bully, and people hate bullies.

Let me say this: I believe the two party system is a dead end game. The big money on both sides have corrupted the process beyond salvation. I just don't see Trump as being the next best thing because he is on his way to being bought and paid for by some of the right (and without them he has no chance). He's trying to dance on both sides of the fence and that never works.

The one thing i think Trump will do is begin to shape the discussion for years to come about serious third party candidates, They just need be more appealing so they draw from both the right and the left.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,174,179 times
Reputation: 49244
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Gordon View Post
While we all have fun here poking holes in each others party and candidates, at some point you have to be intellectually honest enough to realize, both sides have their baggage. I'm not going to carry on about Hillary's, other than to say, it's there (you guys on the right will take care of that for me i'm sure).

Trump's issues are obvious, he wears them on his sleeve and in spite of telling us he'll become "more presidential," it just never seems to happen. I suspect in his own mind (and many of his supporters) being Trump is the allure and he figures trying to become something he's not just isn't in the cards.

From what we are reading, Pence was shoved down his throat (my assumption based on how he tried to get out of it the night the deal was done). One can only assume the deal was brokered by Priebus to get Pence in place to shut down the Never Trump folks.

The reality is, that's small potato's to the real elephant in the room...or should i say, lack thereof. This article from back early in May was and still is spot on. It is clear there would be no "third party" candidate surface before, during or after the convention. Stands to reason, that would literally hand the presidency to Hillary.

The biggest problem the Donald faces (other than he is who he is) are the republicans not willing to get on board with Trump. This Article: See List of 99 Top Republicans Who Refuse To Back Trump, is an intriguing read. In that the article is just over 2 months old, maybe some of those names on the right have come around, but then i guess it would put them in the same camp as Sanders eh?

I'm not going to post any of the list, but there's a couple of cuts i think Trump supporters will find tough to swallow. They're not from lefties with an axe to grind, they are from their very own poster children of the right leaning persuasion.

The first is from George Will, venerable Fox News Political analyst wrote this:” If Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House.” And this: Should Trump get the nomination, conservatives would have to “help him lose 50 states – condign punishment for his comprehensive disdain for conservative essentials, including the manners and grace that should lubricate the nation’s civic life."

If that wasn't bad enough, William Kristol, neoconservative and of The Weekly Standard fame, had this to say: “I just don’t think [Trump] has the character to be president of the United States. It’s beyond any particular issue I disagree with him on, or who he picks as VP or something,” and he said he was looking for an independent candidate like Sasse.

I know the argument; these are old school died in the wool folks trying to stay relevant.Unfortunately, they speak to millions of true conservatives who still believe in how things should be done. If Trump goes against the grain of Will and Kristol, you know at the very least there will be all kinds of my right wing friends that if they even bother to vote, they'll be holding their nose while doing so.

That in my humble opinion is Trump's biggest hurdle...well except he still is who he is...but that's exactly why George and Bill wrote what they did.

Lets wait until after the convention to see how the party feels about getting behind him. I am not a supporter of him but will certainly vote for him over Hillary. I think many feel that way.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,174,179 times
Reputation: 49244
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
What Bill Kristol, George Will and the other Republicans Against Trump (aka R.A.T.s) are failing to acknowledge is this:

Trump has gotten more votes than any other candidate in Republican primary history. Lots of disillusioned folks who gave up on voting years ago are turning out for Trump in force. Kristol and his ilk are perfectly comfortable with career politicians who don't live up to their promises, create laws that they themselves are exempt from, and institute policies that benefit their donors and not their constituents. Just as long as they "act presidential" and hide their true personalities behind a carefully crafted facade, they are A-OK in their little neverTrump world. The arrogance of them assuming they know more than the 13 million who voted for Trump is astounding.

I think they are in for a HUUGE awakening come November.
Oh come on: there are reasons for his getting so many votes: primaries are very different than in years past, he is appealing to many who never have voted (hopefully they will go to the polls in Nov.) He is a novelty and he is promising so many things he can not deliver. Yes, I will vote for him, hopefully many will but the facts still remains the majority of the American people do not like him or approve of him. Do I think he can win? NOPE but I will give him credit, he has steered up emotion and the future could be better because of him. I still do not like the idea of his being our President.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 02:32 PM
 
32,866 posts, read 12,129,539 times
Reputation: 14655
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I also see the GOP not being his fan as a positive also.
If by this you mean establishment/country club/Chamber of Commerce/Boehner-like Republicans, I agree with you. And, like you, I'm not voting for Trump.

Unlike a few of the CD members with TDS, I don't think Texas is a swing state for this cycle so, ultimately, my not voting for POTUS doesn't matter.

Last edited by RMESMH; 07-16-2016 at 02:44 PM.. Reason: ADDED LAST PARAGRAPH
 
Old 07-16-2016, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,382,585 times
Reputation: 24780
It's obvious that many Republicans don't support Drumpf, and they have valid reasons for their lack of enthusiasm. He's a loose cannon who won't take advice. His impulsiveness and lowbrow insults appeal to the low-info rabid right "base" but they're very dangerous traits for a president.

The American public recognizes that he's unsuited for the presidency and he'll be soundly defeated in November.

But it's going to be a very entertaining campaign.
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