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Old 07-18-2016, 09:59 AM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,693,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Iranian-trained Iraqi Shia militia are in Syria now fighting ISIS. They are very active on the Iraqi front against ISIS.

The Iraqis refuse to arm the Kurds, one of America's best natural allies in the Middle East.

Anything that the U.S. does to defeat ISIS will just make the Shia more powerful, to the consternation of Saudi Arabia. That's why we want ISIS defeated, but want to do it on the cheap and with the loss of the fewest American lives of possible.

Who was the big winner in the George W./Pence/Hillary/Republican Irag War? Iran and the Shia.

The problem is how do you influence the long-term outcome in places like Iraq and Afghanistan without a long-term, expensive military commitment including large numbers of ground troops on the ground. George W. and the Republicans fought the Iraq War on the cheap with disastrous consequences.

Pence and the Republicans have never wanted to pay for such a commitment, and the American people with their hollowed-out economy are sick and tired of playing global policeman.

Hillary and the Democrats apparently have learned this lesson to some degree. Trump, Pence, and most Republicans continue to talk loudly and carry a small stick when it comes to paying for a sustained military effort. Trump compares himself to Teddy Roosevelt, but he's the exact opposite of Roosevelt's "Speak softly and carry a big stick" philosophy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_ideology
The iraq war on the cheap? Who implemented the surge? Who drew down forces?
The easy solution is to ramp up air strikes CONSISTENTLY! Unfortunately, Obama has cut our air force down.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Storrs, CT
830 posts, read 678,592 times
Reputation: 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
From the 7/17 CBS "60 Minutes" interview of Trump and Pence:

<<
==
Lesley Stahl: But declare war--
Donald Trump: --get neighboring states and I'm going to get-- we are going to get NATO; we're going to wipe 'em out. We're gonna--
Lesley Stahl: But declare war?
Mike Pence: Lesley--
Lesley Stahl: What does that mean--
Mike Pence: This is-- this is the kind-- this is the kind of leadership that America needs and it--
==
<<

The Republican Ticket: Trump and Pence - CBS News
That's a frightening interview. I didn't see or hear the interview yet, but when I read it over on here, I read Pence saying "Lesley--" like: sigh "Lesley-- Don's brain can't handle this many questions. Go easier on him."
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:25 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,613,208 times
Reputation: 26860
It is disheartening as well as terrifying to read that interview. I know teenagers who have a better understanding of the issues and a more realistic view of foreign policy than Trump and his new puppy, Pence. God help us if he's elected.

Last edited by Marlow; 07-18-2016 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:36 AM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,237 posts, read 5,824,780 times
Reputation: 9117
How many troops should the USA dedicate to the war on terror? It seems to me we aren't the only ones with something to loose. How about the nations in the region with the most to loose actually get serious and fight their own fights. Jordan has done so. Why can't the saudi's? Kuwait? etc.
Instead of trying to over through Assad, why don't we form a meaningful partnership with Russia who has actually hit ISSIS hard. Let Turkey and Pakistan fight for real.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:38 AM
 
23,739 posts, read 14,858,155 times
Reputation: 12796
When Cheney, Rummy, Rice and Bush and their buddy's at The Pentagon and the CIA were whipping us into a frenzy to attack Iraq, what the hell did they think was gonna happen. Those defeated Iraqi generals and the troops were gonna throw roses at our feet?

Now imagine, if you can, what would you do if some sumbitch invaded your house, town, state and/or country? You wanna talk about grudges? This ISIS may be some thousand year inter religion fight. But we gave them plenty of ammunition to use against their cohorts and us, too.

Most of us cannot even look at BLM and try to understand what they are pissed off about. Now try it with someone whose language and culture are foreign to you. After all we've done for them, too.

Donald Trump is delusional, arrogant and ignorant. I'm beginning to think his supporters are, too.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,880,512 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
The iraq war on the cheap? Who implemented the surge? Who drew down forces?
The easy solution is to ramp up air strikes CONSISTENTLY! Unfortunately, Obama has cut our air force down.
Your evidence? This is mine:

Obama: U.S. Military Launched 9,000 Airstrikes Against ISIS So Far

Who implemented the surge? Answer: who was Prez in 2007? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_W..._surge_of_2007

The reality is that Trump hasn't stated how he would do anything differently than what is already being done. The U.S. is using airpower and limited ground forces and aiding local foreign ground forces. Trump isn't saying he would authorize U.S. ground forces. So, he's blowing smoke.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:47 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
14,498 posts, read 9,383,590 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
According to the CNN article:

"I am going to have very few troops on the ground. We're going to have unbelievable intelligence, which we need; which, right now, we don't have. We don't have the people over there," he said.

How does he plan to have "unbelievable intelligence" that we don't have now?
He believes that a statement like this makes sense because he himself is unbelievably unintelligent - except when it comes to scamming people, which he ruthlessly excels at. The American people may just become the next victims of his scams.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:53 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,300,647 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
The iraq war on the cheap? Who implemented the surge? Who drew down forces?
The easy solution is to ramp up air strikes CONSISTENTLY! Unfortunately, Obama has cut our air force down.
The surge was a desperation tactic after George W. committed so few troops to the invasion that the Americans couldn't even adequately defend their supply lines, Iraqi museums, Iraqi archeaological sites, let alone Iraqi civilians.

The Iraqi Shia didn't want us in Iraq, and we didn't have sufficient control of Iraq to impose our will on Iraq. When did the Republicans ever offer a tax increase to finance a sufficient occupation force to impose our will on the Iraqi people?

What makes you believe the American people wanted to occupy Iraq and finance its rebuilding to a greater degree than the couple trillion dollars and tens of thousands of casualties (KIA and wounded) that we spent on the effort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual....2C_or_wounded

As noted in the following article, even many sensible Republicans realized the tragedy of our invasion of Iraq. The Cheney-led Bush the Shrub ignored the wisdom of Bush the Elder and Jim Baker and broke Iraq, and then was unable to put it back together again. The Surge was merely an attempt to pass the buck to the next President.

Obama inherited a crushed economy and a broken Iraq, and only the most ridiculous of Republican stalwarts can pretend otherwise.

Ironically, Trump eviscerated the younger Bushes by exposing the Iraqi stupidity, a key reason for his winning the Republican nomination, but then has mounted this "Declare War on ISIS" policy promising to gain victory with imagined military resources from Turkey, NATO and that great military power Shangri-La.

Read here about the Surge.

Republicans Don't Understand the Lessons of the Iraq War - The Atlantic

Consider that Turkey has only begrudgingly allowed us to use a Turkey air base to maintain air operations against ISIS, and now has frozen that airspace after the coup.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-us-air-force

Trump is going to get Turkey to crush ISIS? How? After destroying the George W. Bush Iraq War myth, Trump now is sounding like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld in promoting a declaration of war on ISIS and an easy victory with a minimal amount of troop commitments. Trump like the Shrub, Cheney, and Rumsfeld, doesn't understand that wars are only won by boots on the ground, and sustainable "victory" can cost more than the war itself. George W. promised us no nation building, than launched the Iraq War, after somehow letting a trapped Al Qaeda escape from Tora Bora. Now some Republicans are hot to elect a guy who likely has no support for his policy among Congressional Republicans. I want to hear Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell say they support a declaration of war on ISIS and the tax increases needed to win such a war. I'm waiting.

Again, does Pence support a declaration of war on ISIS? Does any Republican Senator or Representative in Congress? Why isn't anybody asking any Republican other than Trump about this declaration of war baloney?

Trump and the Republicans love to bash "Crooked Hillary," but it's time that the Democrats start stating the obvious and label Trump as "Dumb Donald."

Last edited by WRnative; 07-18-2016 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Long Island
56,872 posts, read 25,807,174 times
Reputation: 15435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
hello, McFly... Trump will have military advisors! How much military strategy/knowledge do you think Obama, Al Gore, or Hillary has? Hillary has already shown that she does not care about defending us.
Obama retained Robert Gates for a good part of his administration and the same chiefs of staff are there, no one is recommending a declaration of war.


What exactly does declaring war accomplish other than warming the GOP's hearts with useless rhetoric. How does Trump get "the best intelligence ever". Just defeating ISIS without a political solution accomplishes nothing, we will be back to square one in a few years without a comprehensive plan that includes a stable Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. Just rushing in and shouting kill them all is great for attracting votes but is not nearly a solution.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,159,363 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkm370 View Post
I'll support him if he sends his dimwitted sons over there
The Trumps don't do military service. Congenital bone spurs.
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