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View Poll Results: Barack Obama vs. John McCain - Who will you vote for?
Barack Obama 65 58.04%
John McCain 47 41.96%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-21-2008, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,233 posts, read 7,718,161 times
Reputation: 2623

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinFromBoise View Post
Reduce spending? Have you actually looked at Obama's plans?
Yes. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fi...icy_Fiscal.pdf

Restore Fiscal Discipline to Washington
Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for
by cuts to other programs or new revenue.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Denver
456 posts, read 1,437,762 times
Reputation: 128
Obama all the way.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,503,824 times
Reputation: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrekker View Post
Trevor92

Obama may lean pretty far to the left- however after nearly 30 years of hard right corporate and social fascism in this country starting in 1980- but really starting with Nixon in 1968- a swing to the left may actually be just a pendulum drop to the center.

Frankly, a moderate like Mr. McCain may not be able to correct the many inequalities of the last couple of decades created by the far right- a sort of Social Darwinism that takes no prisoners and has no empathy for the weaker among us.

With a faltering economy that is likely in a recession, that may deepen- and with most of the social safety nets pulled out from many to give more to the rich, as extreme as Mr. Obama's or Mrs Clinton's leftist views may be- many people might be willing to choose them over McCain's approach, which may be too timid for the times.

After all FDR was called a socialist in 1932, among many other things- views his opponents had said would destroy the free enterprise system. The Extreme measures he took, where mostly moderate, to correct the inaction of decades to provide more social and economic security after a protracted period of far too much corporate power, with a small percentage of Americans having too much money and putting nothing back in.

Mr. McCain may represent the status Quo- which now may not be enough.
Exactly! Right to the point. Good, good post.
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:23 PM
 
1,604 posts, read 3,494,821 times
Reputation: 1526
My first choice is Obama, but I don't have any spite for McCain (the same can't be said for Hillary and her husband as of late). My only problem w/ McCain is the desire to continue the Iraq war.

IMO, if McCain would've been the anti-Bush, anti-neocon, sensible republican (fiscally conservate and socially liberal platforms) during this campagn and spoke against staying in Iraq (while emphasizing the real war against Al Quaeda), I would have a lot less apprehension about choosing him if Hillary somehow took the nomination.
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
1,773 posts, read 2,545,965 times
Reputation: 213
Seriously.....as a 27 y/o, i can't imagine sitting tight trying to hear McCain's talking points.......i can't imagine even going to one of his rallies. AND CERTAINLY I CAN'T IMAGINE VOTING FOR HIM. There's just no connection. NONE
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:06 PM
 
12,050 posts, read 11,109,050 times
Reputation: 9999
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
I'm sorry to say that I voted for the current administration
Sassyone, that's very brave of you to admit, but please tell me it wasn't in 2004. I just can't find it in my heart to forgive anyone who voted for Bush in 2004 (granted, Kerry wasn't a particularly good candidate).
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: San Antonio North
4,147 posts, read 7,222,358 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnestorr View Post
Seriously.....as a 27 y/o, i can't imagine sitting tight trying to hear McCain's talking points.......i can't imagine even going to one of his rallies. AND CERTAINLY I CAN'T IMAGINE VOTING FOR HIM. There's just no connection. NONE

Hmm I younger than you and know it is not good to vote for the personality. (for all you Bush haters was that not the reason he won)

At my age I can't imagine voting for someone that has had less years in the US senate than I have college. Not to mention someone for LATE TERM and PARTIAL BIRTH abortions. Not to mention someone that wants to raise taxes for fairness and not revenue.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:42 PM
 
715 posts, read 1,948,268 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrekker View Post
Trevor92

Obama may lean pretty far to the left- however after nearly 30 years of hard right corporate and social fascism in this country starting in 1980- but really starting with Nixon in 1968- a swing to the left may actually be just a pendulum drop to the center.

Frankly, a moderate like Mr. McCain may not be able to correct the many inequalities of the last couple of decades created by the far right- a sort of Social Darwinism that takes no prisoners and has no empathy for the weaker among us.

With a faltering economy that is likely in a recession, that may deepen- and with most of the social safety nets pulled out from many to give more to the rich, as extreme as Mr. Obama's or Mrs Clinton's leftist views may be- many people might be willing to choose them over McCain's approach, which may be too timid for the times.

After all FDR was called a socialist in 1932, among many other things- views his opponents had said would destroy the free enterprise system. The Extreme measures he took, where mostly moderate, to correct the inaction of decades to provide more social and economic security after a protracted period of far too much corporate power, with a small percentage of Americans having too much money and putting nothing back in.

Mr. McCain may represent the status Quo- which now may not be enough.
My apologies for the delay, I don't check the forum that much and I just noticed your response with the latest revival.

However, your response takes generalities that cannot be made. If you look at the elections since 80, the order goes Carter (til 81), Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush. And before Nixon in '68 it was LBJ and JFK.

The point is that Americans tend to replace the party in power in cycles. It would have happened to Bush in 88 and the second Bush in 04 if it weren't for extremely weak Democratic nominees. Using your logic is what America has done, created a pendelum of power that swings back and forth. Replacing change with change and ideas with other ideas in cycles. And where does history show the cycle generally getting us? Wanting more change.

Therein lies the danger in an Obama Presidency. He's so far to the left, it's just another cycle, another pendulum swing back to the left with more failed policies and principles which will cause the pendulum to swing back around. He's got the backing of a Democratic Congress. And history teaches what in that regard? Americans gave the first Bush a Democratic Congress, Clinton lost in 94 to Republicans, Bush II lost it in 96 to Democrats.

It's a sad shape in politics when the two parties are so far the right and left that Americans reject their ideas over and over again in cycles.

Frankly, Mr. McCain, in my best judgement, is exactly the president that we've been looking for, for the past 30 years. Somebody who doesn't represent another cycle. Somebody with a bipartisan past who represents a reaching across the aisle. He's smart enough to know that a Democratically controlled congress won't make Bush's tax-cuts permanent. But lets not forget that he proposed his own in 2000 that were very moderate, and didn't just give the most benefits to the most fortunate among us. But they also are not liberal in nature, increasing taxes to justify more failed social programs as Obama has put forth in promise after promise, because he has been a very good watchdog over the size of government and wasteful spending. The society we live in does not require sweeping changes. America will never be socialistic in nature, and any attempt will create another endless cycle. But we are a society that provides free public education so everybody gets a chance at success. But we also live in a Capitalistic society that, although imperfect, is far better than any other alternative. And lets also not forget that the natural cycle of any captalistic society is hills and valleys with good times and bad. The fact that we're in a small rut now is no reason to overhaul the system. And the leftist views of Obama go beyond empathy to a redistribution of wealth and ideas that hamper economic growth, along with a 'youthful' foreign policy, in a very Carter-ish fashion which put us in a heck of a rut in the late 70's.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Road Warrior
2,015 posts, read 4,996,004 times
Reputation: 798
I don't like McBush, Osama or Billary ... I smell liars all around, however peace is not won in a day and it is more about the situation of peace in the middle-east than it is about war, it takes about 3 generations to change a culture, and that includes changing the culture of war in the middle east. The war in Iraq is directly related with oil prices and the economy, pulling out of Iraq prematurely would only make us go back 40 years down the road to stabilize another conflict, thus I am not left with no choice but McBush I mean Mccain.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
1,773 posts, read 2,545,965 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryneone View Post
Hmm I younger than you and know it is not good to vote for the personality. (for all you Bush haters was that not the reason he won)

At my age I can't imagine voting for someone that has had less years in the US senate than I have college. Not to mention someone for LATE TERM and PARTIAL BIRTH abortions. Not to mention someone that wants to raise taxes for fairness and not revenue.

The difference between your analysis and mine is that.......you equate the number of years spent in Washington to necessary experience needed for leading this country and I just don't.
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