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Old 08-04-2016, 05:36 PM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
6,311 posts, read 6,816,707 times
Reputation: 7167

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
Looks to me like we'll save Trillions and Trillions by ending the wars-including war on "drugs", nationalizing healthcare and the Federal Reserve, repealing the Patriot Act/NSA, ending the Billions in foreign aid, etc.

Break up “too-big-to-fail” banks and democratize the Federal Reserve.
Establish federal, state, and municipal publicly-owned banks that function as non-profit utilities and focus on helping people, not enriching themselves.

Make Wall Street, big corporations, and the rich pay their fair share of taxes.

End the failed war on drugs. Replace drug prohibition with harm reduction. Legalize marijuana/hemp. Treat substance abuse as a health problem, not a criminal offense.
Release nonviolent drug offenders from prison, removing such offenses from their records, and provide them with both pre- and post-release support.

Repeal the Patriot Act that violates our constitutional right to privacy and protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

Establish a foreign policy based on diplomacy, international law, human rights, and nonviolent support for democratic movements around the world.
Cut military spending by at least 50% and close the 700+ foreign military bases.

Stop U.S. financial and military support to human rights abusers. Barring substantial changes in their policies, this would include Saudi Arabia, Israel and Egypt.

End the destructive US economic and military intervention into the affairs of sovereign nations. Such intervention serve the interests of multinational corporations and global capitalism over the interests of the vast majority of the citizens of those nation

End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, withdrawing troops and military contractors.

Eliminate the doctrine of corporate personhood that among other things has been used to justify unlimited corporate spending in elections with a constitutional amendment to clarify that only human beings have constitutional rights.

Require full disclosure of corporate subsidies in the budget and stop hiding subsidies in complicated tax code.

Eliminate the cancer of health insurance, which adds costs while reducing access to health care, at huge savings by eliminating the $400 billion annually spent on the paperwork and bureaucracy of health insurance.
These are some of my favorites in her platform. Some of them are too outlandish for me, like the right to a living wage job (we can encourage this in other ways rather than a straight up right) but I agree with most of her platform.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:39 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 6,335,218 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear View Post
So do I not deserve to live because I can't spend 40,000 on the 1 1/2 hour surgery I had to get to remove a cancer tumor? I mean there's a few people in the top 1% that can afford that out of pocket but with insurance going through the roof with Obamacare (part of this was requiring that insurance companies not deny a client based on pre-existing conditions, which I have myself as having an autoimmune disease and at one point having cancer) meaning they were forced to take on losses. In a way I view this as a good thing, if insurance is required we shouldn't be denied it because of something that happened to us, out of our control, before the new policy. My insurance took quite a bit of that 40,000 but they will get back at me somehow when I look for my own insurance plan in a few years.

Nationalizing healthcare through a single-payer system would mean people who do get serious illnesses like cancer and PTSD can get the care they deserve. Many children get serious illnesses who fall under the pre-existing conditions clause that used to exist here and many could not afford insurance when they became adults because some of them were that bad. And many middle-class people cannot afford to pay for their child's healthcare if they ever got sick. This would mean no extra stress on adults who fall ill, as we all know stress can make your health worse.

I don't agree with the right to jobs. However, we should encourage tax incentives maybe for businesses to employ more people. Our economy shouldn't be favoring off-shoring and replacing humans with robots, a tax incentive or some other program would be a step in the right direction.
Correct -- noone owes you healthcare because it costs money to provide.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,898,352 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
With more and more people and fewer and fewer jobs the alternative is you are going to pay people to do nothing.
I know. It's called a guaranteed basic income: even libertarian economists say its preferable to our current welfare system.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:54 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIS123 View Post
So the answer is to force businesses to hire? How is the business going to pay people it doesn't need? What if the hired person is incompetent but the employer is forced to retain and pay them? If you're owed a job just because you're alive, aren't you owed a minimum per annum salary? How much? Why not more?

I'd take the opposite approach -- shrink the government, reduce taxes, reduce regulations, simplify taxes, reduce the power of lobbyists, reduce the power of government to appease lobbyists. This would lead to millions of more jobs than we have now and far fewer people who need assistance.
Maybe.......I just know the status quo isn't going to work long term and someone has to start the process.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:54 PM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
6,311 posts, read 6,816,707 times
Reputation: 7167
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIS123 View Post
Correct -- noone owes you healthcare because it costs money to provide.
You do realize we actually save money as a whole by nationalizing healthcare right? Without insurance we save probably millions on overhead costs and the government can control costs without being influenced by the market.

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective - The Commonwealth Fund

Forbes Welcome

We spend roughly double on healthcare costs per capita than any other first world country with nationalized healthcare.

We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world. This is because of for-profit healthcare companies doing what they are supposed to do, FOR PROFIT. Exploiting the health of citizens that many of us cannot control. I will never get my autoimmune disease cured or in order, I have to pay for drugs for the rest of my life, and I'll probably get cancer again because of it since I got a cancer diagnosis at age 20. And the hospital I went to is still trying to bill me for that surgery, we might have to take them to court.

It's clear you have never had a severe illness. If you did you'd think differently. I hope you never get cancer and wonder how you're going to pay for a 50k surgery, on top of that chemo which is a lot more expensive, and your other bills like a mortgage maybe and wonder if you'll ever have enough money for retirement. Odds are you'd have to work for the rest of your life. Meanwhile you are fighting us, your fellow middle-class and poorer people, for the scraps of a few extra dollars in taxes while the companies will feed off you getting older and more sick and seeing billions in profits a year, charging you extra on overhead, advertising, etc. and other BS we wouldn't need under nationalized healthcare.

I hope you don't withdraw from Social Security, because that costs money to provide.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:55 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
I know. It's called a guaranteed basic income: even libertarian economists say its preferable to our current welfare system.
It might be........it's good that someone wants to start the conversation.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:56 PM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
6,311 posts, read 6,816,707 times
Reputation: 7167
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
I know. It's called a guaranteed basic income: even libertarian economists say its preferable to our current welfare system.
In what ways?
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:56 PM
 
4,668 posts, read 3,899,635 times
Reputation: 3437
Wow, that's a lot of issues I disagree with. They kept saying they will create 20 millions jobs over and over through the platform. Lol. They would be lucky to break even. Gas, coal, and oil hire a lot of people right now, and all of those jobs would be gone.

Do they want to close private schools? That's the impression I got. More jobs gone. For profit health services gone? More jobs gone.

I'm a big proponent of wind power, but it is already expanding quickly, and the "clean energies" can't replace everything else in 20 years. Close all nuclear power plants? No thanks.

Sorry, I just don't agree with much of their platform.
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:58 PM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
6,311 posts, read 6,816,707 times
Reputation: 7167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Wow, that's a lot of issues I disagree with. They kept saying they will create 20 millions jobs over and over through the platform. Lol. They would be lucky to break even. Gas, coal, and oil hire a lot of people right now, and all of those jobs would be gone.

Do they want to close private schools? That's the impression I got. More jobs gone. For profit health services gone? More jobs gone.

I'm a big proponent of wind power, but it is already expanding quickly, and the "clean energies" can't replace everything else in 20 years. Close all nuclear power plants? No thanks.

Sorry, I just don't agree with much of their platform.
And whose to say those jobs in energy won't transfer to renewable energy? Or those private school jobs transferring to more public school jobs? It's not like the kids who need an education are suddenly going to die off and that means less teachers are needed.

I agree we can't get to 100% in a few years. Longer but we can get there.
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Old 08-04-2016, 06:02 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 6,335,218 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear View Post
You do realize we actually save money as a whole by nationalizing healthcare right? Without insurance we save probably millions on overhead costs and the government can control costs without being influenced by the market.

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective - The Commonwealth Fund

Forbes Welcome

We spend roughly double on healthcare costs per capita than any other first world country with nationalized healthcare.

We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world. This is because of for-profit healthcare companies doing what they are supposed to do, FOR PROFIT. Exploiting the health of citizens that many of us cannot control. I will never get my autoimmune disease cured or in order, I have to pay for drugs for the rest of my life, and I'll probably get cancer again because of it since I got a cancer diagnosis at age 20. And the hospital I went to is still trying to bill me for that surgery, we might have to take them to court.

It's clear you have never had a severe illness. If you did you'd think differently. I hope you never get cancer and wonder how you're going to pay for a 50k surgery, on top of that chemo which is a lot more expensive, and your other bills like a mortgage maybe and wonder if you'll ever have enough money for retirement. Odds are you'd have to work for the rest of your life. Meanwhile you are fighting us, your fellow middle-class and poorer people, for the scraps of a few extra dollars in taxes while the companies will feed off you getting older and more sick and seeing billions in profits a year, charging you extra on overhead, advertising, etc. and other BS we wouldn't need under nationalized healthcare.

I hope you don't withdraw from Social Security, because that costs money to provide.
Noone (myself included) has a right to things that cost money to provide, because that means we have a right to other peoples' money. There is no Constitutional right to SS, btw. What I mean by a right is something that a person is owed just by virtue of being alive.

The SS money paid back to me will be based on what I paid into it the system via FICA taxes. I am not asking anyone to give me SS - if I had it my way, I'd stop paying FICA taxes now and forego future benefits but that's not an option.

I hope I don't get cancer as well but, if I do, other people are not obligated to pay for my care.
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