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Old 08-29-2016, 10:41 PM
 
244 posts, read 180,921 times
Reputation: 488

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I often hear how you are not sure who to vote for and are even thinking of staying home on the election day. But saying that it's a "choice between two evils" is the mother of all false equivalences.

While our present system is in many ways sucky, it does work for most people. As in, the majority of Americans have enough to eat, adequate shelter, do not fear violence on a day to day basis and are free to be themselves as far as their spirituality, culture and personal life. These four are great achievements and if there is any doubt about that just follow the news outside of the developed world. I am sure that Hillary will do all she can to keep this system that achieves those things for most, and maybe even slightly improve it. After all, as is often pointed out by her critics, she is a product of this system through and through.

Trump, on the other hand, cannot be trusted to guarantee these four things for most Americans. First, he is incredibly poorly informed as many of his statements show clearly. To keep a system like ours afloat, one needs a certain level of knowledge. Second, he is mentally unbalanced and erratic. Any enterprise led by someone like that is guaranteed to have serious problems. Third, with his harsh and hateful statements about individuals and whole groups of people, he exhibits a totalitarian worldview that goes against our basic liberties. Looking at some of his vocal supporters, from the "white power" types to religious fanatics (just look at his running mate) , to conspiracy threorists I have no reason to doubt that.

Believe me, for all the issues in America, most of us have it really, really good. We have a lot to lose. This is a choice between keeping the ship afloat and making holes in its hull to see what happens. This is not a difficult choice, one option is very clearly better than the other. Do not let yourself be lulled into complacency, do not wallow in false despair and cynicism. Get out and vote if not for a better America, then at least for America as we know it.
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:46 PM
 
6,977 posts, read 5,707,016 times
Reputation: 5177
Quote:
Originally Posted by candalf View Post
I often hear how you are not sure who to vote for and are even thinking of staying home on the election day. But saying that it's a "choice between two evils" is the mother of all false equivalences.

While our present system is in many ways sucky, it does work for most people. As in, the majority of Americans have enough to eat, adequate shelter, do not fear violence on a day to day basis and are free to be themselves as far as their spirituality, culture and personal life. These four are great achievements and if there is any doubt about that just follow the news outside of the developed world. I am sure that Hillary will do all she can to keep this system that achieves those things for most, and maybe even slightly improve it. After all, as is often pointed out by her critics, she is a product of this system through and through.

Trump, on the other hand, cannot be trusted to guarantee these four things for most Americans. First, he is incredibly poorly informed as many of his statements show clearly. To keep a system like ours afloat, one needs a certain level of knowledge. Second, he is mentally unbalanced and erratic. Any enterprise led by someone like that is guaranteed to have serious problems. Third, with his harsh and hateful statements about individuals and whole groups of people, he exhibits a totalitarian worldview that goes against our basic liberties. Looking at some of his vocal supporters, from the "white power" types to religious fanatics (just look at his running mate) , to conspiracy threorists I have no reason to doubt that.

Believe me, for all the issues in America, most of us have it really, really good. We have a lot to lose. This is a choice between keeping the ship afloat and making holes in its hull to see what happens. This is not a difficult choice, one option is very clearly better than the other. Do not let yourself be lulled into complacency, do not wallow in false despair and cynicism. Get out and vote if not for a better America, then at least for America as we know it.
'harsh and hateful'? is that what we call the blunt truth these days?

you're essentially saying america is mediocre and we should strive to keep it that way?

this is america jack, if you want to be the 'best country' you can't be wallowing in corruption and while 'things are good' for many people, they're not good for a lot of others and there's no proof that it wont keep getting worse and worse.

you know the old saying, if you're staying the same, you're getting worse.
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:49 PM
 
12,638 posts, read 8,952,231 times
Reputation: 7458
The DNC needs to pay its hired shills more. The quality is getting worse with every post.
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:51 PM
 
1,327 posts, read 722,860 times
Reputation: 700
Just thinking the same thing, LTR. What a dopey effort.
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Old 08-29-2016, 10:57 PM
 
6,977 posts, read 5,707,016 times
Reputation: 5177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Financialguy View Post
Just thinking the same thing, LTR. What a dopey effort.
lol exactly, if you want to convince someone that the crooked one is the correct choice, you gotta come up with something better than 'we currently suck but we don't totally suck so we should be happy sucking and vote for someone who sucks and will keep the sucky country sucky instead of voting for the other guy who's going to try and make the sucky country unsucky but he might fail and make the sucky country totally sucky so we ought to stick with sucky for another 4 years"

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Old 08-29-2016, 11:02 PM
 
22,469 posts, read 11,990,487 times
Reputation: 20381
So...according to the OP---we should vote for Hillary to keep the corruption going. So that politicians on both sides of the aisle can continue to feed at the trough and put their mega-rich donors ahead of their constituents.

How anyone can think that a Hillary presidency would be good, is beyond me!
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Old 08-30-2016, 08:40 AM
 
244 posts, read 180,921 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by wall st kid View Post
you gotta come up with something better than 'we currently suck but we don't totally suck so we should be happy sucking and vote for someone who sucks and will keep the sucky country sucky instead of voting for the other guy who's going to try and make the sucky country unsucky but he might fail and make the sucky country totally sucky so we ought to stick with sucky for another 4 years"
The only issue I have with this reply is the statement "he might fail and make the sucky country totally sucky", more specifically the "might" part. That needs to be a "will'. Why?

I will pick only three reasons, even though there are more. I will stir clear from attacks on his character and focus on substance.

First, it is clear that Trump believes in cutting taxes as much as possible, especially on big businesses and the rich. He also believes in doing away with most regulations. That means less money for education, poorer transportation, less protection for workers and dirtier air. Sounds sucky to me. Just think the Great Recession that started as a result of these typical Republican policies.

Second, Trump will appoint conservative judges even though he himself is not particularly conservative. These are the people who think it is their business to mandate what you do in your bedroom and what you do with your body. These are the people who believe in myths of an ancient religion more than science. These are the people who will always take the side of the employer rather than the employee. That sounds incredibly sucky too.

Finally, I think we all agree that much of the suckiness in this country comes from corporations having too much power over people. While many say that Clinton takes money from corporations, Trump is himself a corporation! To imagine that he will not use his power to benefit his business empire is not rational. At least with Clinton there is balance, as she works with many diverse business intetests, not just one.

...No one is saying that the choice is inspiring but I hope that it should be very clear to any thinking individual who wants America to remain a civilized country.
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Old 08-30-2016, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,957 posts, read 22,107,325 times
Reputation: 26686
The whole election comes down to the morally, mentally and physically incompetent Hillary Clinton who has already proven to have disregarded rules that could and may have endangered our security and lives of our country and others in the world or Trump who obviously always had a patriotic feeling for our country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCabT_O0YSM

If Hillary is elected, we end up giving up our sovereignty, everything that we are and everything that made our country great. They, whatever evil exists behind the Democratic Party at this time, have already been working to do that. Look at where that is taking us.

Anyone that takes a good hard look at nationalism, which Trump embraces and globalism, which Hillary clings to, will see a clear choice on whom to cast their vote.

World War III: The Globalists vs. the Nationalists | The Millennium Report

Trump vs. Hillary Is Nationalism vs. Globalism, 2016 | The National Interest

When and Why Nationalism Beats Globalism - The American Interest

Most of our ancestors worked hard and many died that we have the country that we have and in their honor, do not choose throw away the country and government that was built by voting for the morally, mentally and physically incompetent Hillary Clinton.

It is very obvious that Hillary is wasted and being used as a puppet for the globalism effort. This is serious business. Just say "NO" to letting the elite take our country away and make it part of the world melting pot.
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Old 08-30-2016, 08:57 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,975,351 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by candalf View Post
I often hear how you are not sure who to vote for and are even thinking of staying home on the election day. But saying that it's a "choice between two evils" is the mother of all false equivalences.

While our present system is in many ways sucky, it does work for most people. As in, the majority of Americans have enough to eat, adequate shelter, do not fear violence on a day to day basis and are free to be themselves as far as their spirituality, culture and personal life. These four are great achievements and if there is any doubt about that just follow the news outside of the developed world. I am sure that Hillary will do all she can to keep this system that achieves those things for most, and maybe even slightly improve it. After all, as is often pointed out by her critics, she is a product of this system through and through.

Trump, on the other hand, cannot be trusted to guarantee these four things for most Americans. First, he is incredibly poorly informed as many of his statements show clearly. To keep a system like ours afloat, one needs a certain level of knowledge. Second, he is mentally unbalanced and erratic. Any enterprise led by someone like that is guaranteed to have serious problems. Third, with his harsh and hateful statements about individuals and whole groups of people, he exhibits a totalitarian worldview that goes against our basic liberties. Looking at some of his vocal supporters, from the "white power" types to religious fanatics (just look at his running mate) , to conspiracy threorists I have no reason to doubt that.

Believe me, for all the issues in America, most of us have it really, really good. We have a lot to lose. This is a choice between keeping the ship afloat and making holes in its hull to see what happens. This is not a difficult choice, one option is very clearly better than the other. Do not let yourself be lulled into complacency, do not wallow in false despair and cynicism. Get out and vote if not for a better America, then at least for America as we know it.
If you were truly concerned you would have noted that third party options such as Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, and write in votes are also to be considered. Pretty easy to see through your shilling for the Hill there.
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Georgia
1,202 posts, read 641,377 times
Reputation: 309
I can't wait for the worker to tell the gimme gimme gimme scum to go to hell and they leave the country or just decide to do something about the gimme gimme gimme scum stealing all the taxes and not giving ANYTHING in return.
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