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There are plenty of reasons why some political groups would like others to be disenfranchised.
And just because there is help available, doesn't mean it's easily available.
The people who don't have ID live on the fringes of society.
And while you may have to show your ID on a daily basis, most of us don't.
It's not about not wanting anyone to be inconvenienced.
It's about the FACT that voter fraud doesn't happen in person at the polling station. That kind of voter fraud is incredibly rare.
Why don't you address when and where real voter fraud occurs? The fact that you ignore where and when real voter fraud occurs backs up my statement that voter ID laws are not about voter fraud at all.
I didn't say that I have to show valid ID every single day. However, I am always prepared in case I'm asked for it. And, yes, help is easily available. You were given links in the other thread when you made the false claim that there was no help. Those links debunked what you believe.
One can't force someone to leave "the fringes of society". However, if one is on "the fringes of society", then one has to realize that by being there, it restricts their movements in the greater society. Why should anyone who refuses to get valid ID be enabled to continue living that way? If that person wants to leave "the fringes of society", there certainly is help available for them. Period.
Voter fraud certainly does happen at the polling stations where no ID is required. Once again, I'll post this video to give you a rather glaring example of it:
I didn't say that I have to show valid ID every single day. However, I am always prepared in case I'm asked for it. And, yes, help is easily available. You were given links in the other thread when you made the false claim that there was no help. Those links debunked what you believe.
One can't force someone to leave "the fringes of society". However, if one is on "the fringes of society", then one has to realize that by being there, it restricts their movements in the greater society. Why should anyone who refuses to get valid ID be enabled to continue living that way? If that person wants to leave "the fringes of society", there certainly is help available for them. Period.
Voter fraud certainly does happen at the polling stations where no ID is required. Once again, I'll post this video to give you a rather glaring example of it:
In 2004 Wisconsin they found 5,000+ more ballots cast than people who actually voted in Milwaukee -- someone stuffed it with extras... Then they found thousands more of people who voted illegally....in state Kerry won by 11,000. I bet some Milwaukee local races were decided within that margin.
Democrats oppose stricter voter ID laws, because they know voter fraud benefits them the most. We are morphing into a Banana Republic where Hillary can bleachbit emails AFTER they are subpoenaed and half the country approves of the obstruction of justice.
Someone stuffed it with extras....per your posting of what the article said. Now, how is voter ID supposed to stop stuffing ballot boxes? So seems like the problem is vote fraud, not voter fraud. The two are very different. Voter fraud is, as DC at the Ridge points out, fraud that happens in-person at the voting booth. What you are posting about is not voter fraud, it's vote fraud, without the final r. ID is not going to stop vote fraud AFTER everyone's cast their ballots. Also, since each state has separate voter registration databases, illegal aliens voting fraudulently with, let's say, an invalid SS number, if the ID theft victim lives in a different state, there's no way State A is going to know that State B resident already voted.
So, then we're back to square one. The end result being, more poor people, namely minorities, are going to be shut out of the polls than voter fraud getting stopped.
But maybe not easily available per the elderly woman on a fixed income living in a small community with few services available.
Again, the voter fraud that DOES happen at the polling station doesn't change the outcome of elections.
WHY won't you address the voter fraud issues that don't involve voter ID? Do you have any solutions?
As per your last paragraph, you are trying to deflect. First you claim that voter fraud doesn't happen at the polls. Then when I show you an example, you moved the goalposts. What, exactly, are you now referring to? Electronic voting systems being hacked?
The elderly woman on a fixed income does have options. She can get in touch with local groups that work with the elderly (Or, now you're going to tell me that she doesn't even have a landline?) I'm sure that they can arrange to get help for her. I have to wonder, though, how did she get by all these years without having valid ID? If you are so very concerned about these rare examples, volunteer to work with groups that assist such people. Now you're just twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to come up with rare examples.
How can you say, with such certainty that voter fraud doesn't change the outcome of elections? How can you know if it's a situation where voters don't have to show ID to vote?
Someone stuffed it with extras....per your posting of what the article said. Now, how is voter ID supposed to stop stuffing ballot boxes? So seems like the problem is vote fraud, not voter fraud. The two are very different. Voter fraud is, as DC at the Ridge points out, fraud that happens in-person at the voting booth. What you are posting about is not voter fraud, it's vote fraud, without the final r. ID is not going to stop vote fraud AFTER everyone's cast their ballots. Also, since each state has separate voter registration databases, illegal aliens voting fraudulently with, let's say, an invalid SS number, if the ID theft victim lives in a different state, there's no way State A is going to know that State B resident already voted.
So, then we're back to square one. The end result being, more poor people, namely minorities, are going to be shut out of the polls than voter fraud getting stopped.
Per the bolded---Now we're back to claiming that minorities are incapable of getting valid ID? Seriously? How many of your relatives don't have valid ID? My 91 year old father and his 88 year old sister have valid ID---and have had it for years.
Someone stuffed it with extras....per your posting of what the article said. Now, how is voter ID supposed to stop stuffing ballot boxes? So seems like the problem is vote fraud, not voter fraud. The two are very different. Voter fraud is, as DC at the Ridge points out, fraud that happens in-person at the voting booth. What you are posting about is not voter fraud, it's vote fraud, without the final r. ID is not going to stop vote fraud AFTER everyone's cast their ballots. Also, since each state has separate voter registration databases, illegal aliens voting fraudulently with, let's say, an invalid SS number, if the ID theft victim lives in a different state, there's no way State A is going to know that State B resident already voted.
So, then we're back to square one. The end result being, more poor people, namely minorities, are going to be shut out of the polls than voter fraud getting stopped.
You are being disingenuous - that same article shows thousands of voter fraud votes in Wisconsin. College kids voting in more than one location. Felons voting behind bars. "Dead people" voting. Non-US citizens voting. Etc....
Democrats constantly avoid truth on this issue. One of the biggest lies put forward is that Democrats often claim to support the notion that you shouldn't need a photo ID to exercise any constitutional right. This is pure BS. If Democrats were sincere they would also advocate the following:
-Not needing a photo ID for background checks when buying guns as a constitutional right.
-Not needing a photo ID (US passport) when reentering the US as a constitutional right.
-Not needing a photo ID when registering to run for office as a constitutional right.
Per the bolded---Now we're back to claiming that minorities are incapable of getting valid ID? Seriously? How many of your relatives don't have valid ID? My 91 year old father and his 88 year old sister have valid ID---and have had it for years.
Additionally, poor people as he claims that it will hurt more, already need photo ID for the various forms of welfare...
As per your last paragraph, you are trying to deflect. First you claim that voter fraud doesn't happen at the polls. Then when I show you an example, you moved the goalposts. What, exactly, are you now referring to? Electronic voting systems being hacked?
The elderly woman on a fixed income does have options. She can get in touch with local groups that work with the elderly (Or, now you're going to tell me that she doesn't even have a landline?) I'm sure that they can arrange to get help for her. I have to wonder, though, how did she get by all these years without having valid ID? If you are so very concerned about these rare examples, volunteer to work with groups that assist such people. Now you're just twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to come up with rare examples.
How can you say, with such certainty that voter fraud doesn't change the outcome of elections? How can you know if it's a situation where voters don't have to show ID to vote?
I NEVER claimed that voter fraud doesn't happen at the polls. NEVER. (Talk about trying to change the goalposts!)
I can say with such certainty that voter fraud doesn't change the outcome of elections, because it's an issue that has been studied over and over and over. And study after study after study has shown that in the United States that in-person voter fraud is negligible and has no effect on the outcome of elections. Your side has been trying to prove the opposite now for decades, and has been unable to show an election outcome that was changed by in-person voter fraud.
You are being disingenuous - that same article shows thousands of voter fraud votes in Wisconsin. College kids voting in more than one location. Felons voting behind bars. "Dead people" voting. Non-US citizens voting. Etc....
Democrats constantly avoid truth on this issue. One of the biggest lies put forward is that Democrats often claim to support the notion that you shouldn't need a photo ID to exercise any constitutional right. This is pure BS. If Democrats were sincere they would also advocate the following:
-Not needing a photo ID for background checks when buying guns as a constitutional right.
-Not needing a photo ID (US passport) when reentering the US as a constitutional right.
-Not needing a photo ID when registering to run for office as a constitutional right.
-etc....
I remember when both New Mexico and Colorado announced several years back that there were potentially thousands of fraudulent voters.
After much expense and blaring headlines, both states found barely any - less than 100 in each case.
Of course, the results were never publicized with the same fervor as were the allegations.
Wonder why that is?
Here's my thought about all of this alleged abuse: the timing is extremely suspicious.
Much like James O'Keefe and his edited videos, all of these allegations are just a little too convenient.
Not saying that all of them are specious, but based on what happened in New Mexico and Colorado, let's just say I have my doubts.
Just had to comment on the last bullet point from above: that one is about as ironic as anything I've seen lately given the birther nonsense of the last eight years.
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However, I am always prepared in case I'm asked for it. And, yes, help is easily available. You were given links in the other thread when you made the false claim that there was no help. Those links debunked what you believe.
