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Old 10-13-2016, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Florida
22,116 posts, read 9,405,113 times
Reputation: 18056

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
Why would the CIA lie? Seriously? They lie all the time, they are in the business of lies and disinformation. Wasn't it the CIA that first claimed it was a video that caused Benghazi?
So you are saying Trump/GOP operatives did the hacking??

You think the government is trying to help Trump in the election? Can't complain the FBI is helping Clinton, but hacking her emails to hurt her also.

Who else would want to embarrass or destroy the Dems and the Clinton campaign?

Who else wouldn't bother hacking the RNC or Trump or anyone affiliated with him?


Feds find evidence Florida election-systems vendor was hacked - CNNPolitics.com
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,300 posts, read 11,647,886 times
Reputation: 10703
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
It's a fair point. We don't have the proof in our hands, and probably never will, as the NSA and the CIA are not going to reveal their methods. But when I see disparate sources like Fox and WSJ posting similar information, I have to go with my gut. Which tells me that it makes a lot of sense; this is a perfect opportunity for Putin to do some meddling. Makes a lot more sense than the Trump campaign accomplishing this hack unaided, no way they are that technologically astute. Although I guess with enough money you can get anything you want.
Did you believe 'weapons of mass destruction'? We have come a long ways from that. Are our politicians today capable of lying?

When it comes to Russia: I just wished that we put chess players against chess players - instead of our golfers! However; I do think that we have to treat Russia with respect. They do have a larger nuclear arsenal - we really don't want to go to war with them. Negotiating is the only logical course of action.

PS About Fox: I have turned the channel many times because all I hear is mainly pro-Hillary. It doesn't sound very 'conservative' anymore.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Out West
22,615 posts, read 16,743,701 times
Reputation: 26186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
This is a big concern, and it doesn't help that Trump actually asked the Russians to hack and get involved in the elections. If a Democrat had done that, you'd never hear the end of it.
Please provide factual evidence that Trump "actually asked the Russians to hack and get involved".

I won't even bother waiting because you'll never find any such thing.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:11 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,476,406 times
Reputation: 15493
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
It's a fair point. We don't have the proof in our hands, and probably never will, as the NSA and the CIA are not going to reveal their methods. But when I see disparate sources like Fox and WSJ posting similar information, I have to go with my gut. Which tells me that it makes a lot of sense; this is a perfect opportunity for Putin to do some meddling. Makes a lot more sense than the Trump campaign accomplishing this hack unaided, no way they are that technologically astute. Although I guess with enough money you can get anything you want.
Let's say the "suspicions" are correct and the information was due to Russian hacks. That does not in and of itself mean the information is false.

Now suspicions do not equate to PROOF, furthermore, just because FOX/WSJ reports on the story does NOT mean it's any more credible. Had they ignored it then the those who hate FOX, like Media Matters would scream about how FOX was only showing "Right Wing Stories".
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:36 AM
 
4,285 posts, read 1,396,457 times
Reputation: 1255
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Do you deny that Trump has praised Putin and acquiesced to Putin's acts of aggression?
How does this validate the claim being made?


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
You and the other Trump supporters ignore what is slapping you in the face repeatedly -- in his efforts to promote his Russian business connections, Trump has promoted one of the most heinous dictators of our times.
Except I am not a Trump supporter. Again, none of that validates the claim they did the hacks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
You apparently love the fact that Putin has appointed his lackies, such as a personal bodyguard, to run Russian provinces. You are unconcerned that Putin has quashed Russian independent media. You agree with Trump that Putin's support for Syrian dictator Assad is fine, and that Putin actions in the Ukraine are acceptable. You have no concern about Trump's substantial undermining of NATO.
Not a Trump supporter. Again, this does not validate the claim that Russia made the hack. You are making accusations based on unsupported correlative claims that I would even question to the accuracy of the context.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
This is all good for the U.S. and its allies, in the eyes of Trump and his Trumpie worshipers.
Again, not a Trump supporter. /shrug




Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Russia Announces Plans for Permanent Naval Base in Syria

Trump's support for Putin is despicable, but provides ample reason for Putin to launch a hacking campaign to promote Trump's candidacy and undermine the American electoral process. Putin's hackers are the best thing going for Trump in his current election debacle.

Let's see, who do I trust, Trump and Putin, who actions and statements are irrefutable, or the FBI and Homeland Security?

Tough one for Trump worshipers, but not for me and most rational Americans.

Most knowledgeable conservatives can't stomach Trump's support for Putin. So please explain why you support a candidate who admires Putin, an ardent foe of democracy? For myself and many others, Putin support is a disqualifying event for any Presidential candidate.

Again, not a Trump supporter. What we have seen though is that you judge by accusation without being properly informed. This would likely explain why you believe something that has not been properly verified.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:42 AM
 
4,285 posts, read 1,396,457 times
Reputation: 1255
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
No democracy-loving American should tolerate a Presidential candidate who admires and accommodates a democracy-shattering dictator.
But we should love a women who was friends with Saul Alinksy and promotes socialist/communist ideal in a country to which is incompatible with it?

Maybe we are to respect and praise the current president who is an open Marxist and good pal of terrorist and murder Bill Ayers? , thinks the Constitution is flawed and has repeatedly attacked American values and culture to promote his own conflicting world view?

Yeah, I am finding it hard not to bust out laughing at the irony of such a comment.

I am no fan of Trump, but my goodness you are spinning quite the tale there.
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:24 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,836,467 times
Reputation: 4096
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
That doesn't negate the fact that there is election rigging (collusion) going on between the MSM/DNC/US Govt.
Conspiratorial baloney.

Stick to the indisputable facts. Trump praises Putin and parrots Putin's policies. Putin likes what he sees in Trump. Putin orders the hacking of the DNC and anything else that will improve Trump's election chances.

Trump's supporters can't accept this rational explanation, so assert ridiculous "factual" claims as alternatives to counter the claims of the U.S. security agencies.

Trumpites don't trust the FBI and Homeland Security.

Instead, they essentially believe the denials of Vladimir Putin.

Americans steeped in WWII Nazi and Cold War Soviet propaganda only can shake their heads in disgust.
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Old 10-13-2016, 12:43 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,836,467 times
Reputation: 4096
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen View Post
How does this validate the claim being made?




Except I am not a Trump supporter. Again, none of that validates the claim they did the hacks.




Not a Trump supporter. Again, this does not validate the claim that Russia made the hack. You are making accusations based on unsupported correlative claims that I would even question to the accuracy of the context.





Again, not a Trump supporter. /shrug







Again, not a Trump supporter. What we have seen though is that you judge by accusation without being properly informed. This would likely explain why you believe something that has not been properly verified.
Persons denying the Russian hack essentially want to see the methods and detailed findings of U.S. security agencies, even though it would compromise future security. They don't trust even Republicans who have seen the evidence and are convinced that the attacks on the DNC and on our electoral system were perpetrated by Russian state agencies.

Consequently I choose to trust the U.S. security agencies in this case, and note it makes immensely logical sense that Putin would do all in his immense power to put Trump in the White House.

My basic point, ignored repeatedly by you and Trump supporters, is that Trump's praise of Putin and support for Putin's aggression disqualifies him to be an American President. As you're not a Trump supporter, so you claim, do you disagree? If you agree that Trump's praise of Putin and de facto support for Putin's aggression disqualifies Trump to be President, the identity of the hackers is relatively immaterial.

The conclusions of U.S. security agencies make perfect sense given that Trump is a gift horse to the Putin regime.

I doubt if U.S. security agencies presented detailed explanations of their conclusions, you and other conspiracy advocates would be convinced.
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Old 10-13-2016, 01:15 PM
 
4,285 posts, read 1,396,457 times
Reputation: 1255
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Persons denying the Russian hack essentially want to see the methods and detailed findings of U.S. security agencies, even though it would compromise future security. They don't trust even Republicans who have seen the evidence and are convinced that the attacks on the DNC and on our electoral system were perpetrated by Russian state agencies.
Oh, the old "its top secret, trust the government " defense.

sorry, no dice. They have nothing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Consequently I choose to trust the U.S. security agencies in this case, and note it makes immensely logical sense that Putin would do all in his immense power to put Trump in the White House.
I don't, especially when those agencies have been found guilty in the past of lying. NSA hack, Snowden informaiton, FBI ignoring Clinton, AG colluding with the clintons, etc...

I do find it rather amusing that the mantra from the progressives now are directly opposite than what they were when Bush was in office. What you say is, you trust your political party which is why this country is so corrupt because people refuse to acknowledge the corruption because of stupid letters behind their favorite pet politician.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
My basic point, ignored repeatedly by you and Trump supporters, is that Trump's praise of Putin and support for Putin's aggression disqualifies him to be an American President. As you're not a Trump supporter, so you claim, do you disagree? If you agree that Trump's praise of Putin and de facto support for Putin's aggression disqualifies Trump to be President, the identity of the hackers is relatively immaterial.
Irrelevant to support your claim. So far, you have failed to establish how any of this validates the claim.

The rest is a dog and pony show of your own fantasies of how you would like Trump to be arrested because he conflicts with your political party.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
The conclusions of U.S. security agencies make perfect sense given that Trump is a gift horse to the Putin regime.

I doubt if U.S. security agencies presented detailed explanations of their conclusions, you and other conspiracy advocates would be convinced.
Sorry, you keep repeating this worship government mantra and the government is corrupt, has been shown to be such multiple times. Asking people to trust them is delusional, especially when that trust is specifically designed to support the target of a candidate.

So, what we conclude is that you have no evidence, but you trust what corrupt political officials tell you.

well, you made it clear where you stand, but alas you don't have an argument, only an appeal to authority.
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Old 10-13-2016, 01:23 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,836,467 times
Reputation: 4096
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen View Post
Oh, the old "its top secret, trust the government " defense.

sorry, no dice. They have nothing.






I don't, especially when those agencies have been found guilty in the past of lying. NSA hack, Snowden informaiton, FBI ignoring Clinton, AG colluding with the clintons, etc...

I do find it rather amusing that the mantra from the progressives now are directly opposite than what they were when Bush was in office. What you say is, you trust your political party which is why this country is so corrupt because people refuse to acknowledge the corruption because of stupid letters behind their favorite pet politician.




Irrelevant to support your claim. So far, you have failed to establish how any of this validates the claim.

The rest is a dog and pony show of your own fantasies of how you would like Trump to be arrested because he conflicts with your political party.





Sorry, you keep repeating this worship government mantra and the government is corrupt, has been shown to be such multiple times. Asking people to trust them is delusional, especially when that trust is specifically designed to support the target of a candidate.

So, what we conclude is that you have no evidence, but you trust what corrupt political officials tell you.

well, you made it clear where you stand, but alas you don't have an argument, only an appeal to authority.
Once again, informative silence on the key topic of whether Trump's praise of Putin and effective support for Putin's aggression makes Trump unfit to be President.

Spin all of conspiracy theories you want to about the alleged Russian hack, the evidence of Trump's anti-democratic perfidy still remains unassailable.

If for no other reason, Trump's coziness with Putin and acceptance of Putin's aggression makes Trump unfit to be President of democracy-loving Americans.
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