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In the world of spies and intelligence, there is almost no 'real proof'. There are only degrees of probability, and the CIA, DHS both said the Russian hack was very high probability.
Our cyber experts most likely have real proof, but releasing it would destroy its value to us. By backtracking, they will learn a lot more about who it came from, where it was sent, etc. by keeping the proof secret.
Anything they use against us is something we can use against them. The Russians didn't just hack the DNC; they hacked the RNC and a bunch of PACs and other agencies, private and public. There are lots of varying reasons why this is valuable to them.
It's all shut down now, however. Once anything leaks about discovery, cyber war is shut down instantly and vanishes. It's much easier to strike known targets than phantoms. The cyber battlefield changes every second.
Clinton, the DNC, et. al. keep stating that Russia is attempting to influence our elections.
In the debate, Clinton blamed these Wikileaks, DNC Hacks, etc. at the hands of Russia. Rather than focusing on the content of the leaks, she simply blamed Russia for hacking.
Is there any actual proof Russia is responsible for any of these leaks?
It doesn't matter. No matter how much evidence would emerge to absolutely confirm Russia's hacking as a fact, the Trump followers would just say that our government, the NYT, The Washington Post--all bought off by the Clintons. There's no getting through to these people. Unless what you have to say confirms their view of the world, you are the enemy. If Jesus Christ himself descended from the skies to confirm that Russia is attempting to influence our elections (which is patently obvious), the Trumpers would ask for his birth certificate, and then tar and feather him as a "traitor" to America and humanity. That's just how far off the beam these folks are.
The hackers that hit the DNC used a Cyrillic (Russian alphabet) keyboard.
The time of attack was consistent with Russian time zone working hours.
Hacking work never done on Russian holidays.
IP addresses of servers that were used trace back to Russia.
Sophisticated malware left behind was professionally done, not a 19-year old amateur.
Hacking methods follow the same template as those done by Russia against NATO members and the MH-17 journalists.
The hackers that hit the DNC used a Cyrillic (Russian alphabet) keyboard.
The time of attack was consistent with Russian time zone working hours.
Hacking work never done on Russian holidays.
IP addresses of servers that were used trace back to Russia.
Sophisticated malware left behind was professionally done, not a 19-year old amateur.
Hacking methods follow the same template as those done by Russia against NATO members and the MH-17 journalists.
How much more proof does anyone need?
Excellent points, but do you have a link supporting all of this?
Once again, informative silence on the key topic of whether Trump's praise of Putin and effective support for Putin's aggression makes Trump unfit to be President.
Your claim is not properly in context and as I said, I do not support Trump so I don't see any point to defending him as it has nothing to do with the point of this discussion which was the claim that Russia did the hack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative
Spin all of conspiracy theories you want to about the alleged Russian hack, the evidence of Trump's anti-democratic perfidy still remains unassailable.
None of what I mentioned is conspiracy. Do you deny that the NSA illegally collected data on Americans and Allies? Do you deny the the evidence provided by Snowden? Do you deny Comeys own testimony on Clinton? Do you deny the AG's conflict of interest and highly unethical meeting with Clinton during the investigation? Do you deny Hillary's own statements publicly which directly conflict with Comey's own testimony concerning her?
I can go on and on, and all of these are facts, not suppositions, not conspiracy theories. They are directly established and if you like, we can go into detail on any of them to alleviate any misunderstandings you might have concerning them.
You on the other hand have NO evidence. All you have is a claim from the FBI that they "suspect" it is the Russian government, but you have no means to establish it. What "suspect" means is they don't know, but somehow that translates to they know and it is all true. You are the one spinning politics here, you are the one operating on nothing more than politically driven assumption. Nothing you have said is verified or validated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative
If for no other reason, Trump's coziness with Putin and acceptance of Putin's aggression makes Trump unfit to be President of democracy-loving Americans.
So now some statements turn into being cozy? I don't like Trump at all, I do not support him, but if you are even remotely suggesting Clinton is fit for president, then you have lost all credibility and it then makes sense that you care nothing establishing validity.
So I take it you personally know and have spent time with Hillary Clinton?
Thus your opinion is based on personal experience and not information from other sources, correct?
Speaking for myself. My dislike for Hillary Clinton is based upon seeing her in action, listening to her speak, the cloud of controversy that has surrounded her since the 90's when the Clintons lived in the White House etc.
I have never met Bill Cosby and I really dislike the man due to his actions.
I never met Ted Kennedy either, but I disliked him for his actions as well.
While the RWNs have been discussing such matters on Breitbart, Drudge, Alex Jones's InfoWars... the rest of us have been following reports from BBC, Reuters, The Guardian....
Except I am not a Trump supporter. Again, none of that validates the claim they did the hacks.
Not a Trump supporter. Again, this does not validate the claim that Russia made the hack. You are making accusations based on unsupported correlative claims that I would even question to the accuracy of the context.
Again, not a Trump supporter. /shrug
Again, not a Trump supporter. What we have seen though is that you judge by accusation without being properly informed. This would likely explain why you believe something that has not been properly verified.
Shhh, you'll destroy their narrative...
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