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How's this for 'circumstantial' proof that Putin is trying to influence our election?
"...Americans should vote for Donald Trump as president next month or risk being dragged into a nuclear war, according to a Russian ultra-nationalist ally of President Vladimir Putin who likes to compare himself to the U.S. Republican candidate..."
<<The FBI has high confidence the Russian government hacked U.S. Democratic Party groups and the personal e-mails of political operatives, according to a person familiar with the findings, a development sure to heighten tensions between Moscow and Washington.
The federal investigation into the hacks has expanded based on evidence that other Democratic-affiliated groups were targeted in addition to the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. That includes the likelihood that personal e-mail accounts of party groups and officials were breached, according to the person, who asked not be identified in order to speak about an ongoing investigation.
“High confidence” is a phrase used by intelligence agencies to signal near-certainty, so the findings, which haven’t been publicly released, underscore the extent to which the Russian government has been found to have spied on this year’s U.S. presidential elections.>>
Even the Wall St. Journal reports that U.S. intelligence officials are confident that the Russian government is behind the hacking attacks aimed against the Clinton campaign.
<<Last week, U.S. intelligence agencies said they are confident senior Russian officials had directed such activities, and that the stolen data was then leaked publicly through Wikileaks, an online persona called Guccifer 2.0, and a website called DCLeaks.com.>>
Posters attempting to deny the conclusions of the FBI and Homeland Security apparently want these agencies to detail their counter-hacking methods and capacities, ignoring that this could easily compromise future U.S. security.
Even Republican members of the Homeland Security Committee, who are privy to the intelligence analysis of the DNC hacks, believe that the Russians are responsible and are appalled by the implications of foreign meddling in the U.S. election process.
<<“Today was just the first step,” said Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.), a member of the Homeland Security Committee. “Russia must face serious consequences. Moscow orchestrated these hacks because [Russian President Vladimir] Putin believes Soviet-style aggression is worth it. The United States must upend Putin’s calculus with a strong diplomatic, political, *cyber and economic response.”>>
Interfering in foreign elections is nothing new for the Putin dictatorship, as noted in the above article.
<<Russian hackers have used hacking and other techniques to influence public opinion in Europe and Eurasia, it noted. On the eve of a critical post-revolution presidential vote in Ukraine in 2014, for instance, a digital assault nearly crippled the website of the country’s central election commission.>>
Putin is relatively immune to counter-measures as he has eliminated Russia's independent media and even the democratic election of provincial governors, who are now effectively appointed by Putin. That's why all knowledgeable Americans are appalled by Trump's apparently uniformed and deferential comments about Putin and his policies.
<<Tula’s leader seemingly appeared from out of nowhere, and his biography revealed that his main credential was 15 years of service as Mr. Putin’s personal bodyguard. Governors in Russia are formally elected by the residents of each region, but the complex nominating process and the election commissions, which are controlled by the Kremlin, allow the president to make anyone he wants a governor, including someone who had never set foot in the region, even as a tourist.
Deep local roots are not a prerequisite for a governorship in Russia today. Stavropol, a strategically critical territory in the Caucasus, is governed by Vladimir Vladimirov, a bureaucrat from the distant Yamal Peninsula who organized Mr. Putin’s famous flight with the cranes. (Four years ago, when visiting Yamal, the president flew a hang glider at the head of a flock of Siberian cranes, guiding them to their winter migration.) >>
Donald Trump is the closest thing to a pro-Putin sycophant that Putin could hope to become President of the U.S. So it's not surprising that he would authorize unprecedented efforts to promote the Trump candidacy.
Don't Trump supporters know any of this? If Trump supporters cherish even minimally democratic values, why would they tolerate any American politician who promotes an anti-democratic dictator, a former KGB agent, who has wreaked havoc on his nation and the world?
This also has been Trump's pitch to the American people regarding his support of an American policy deferential to Russia that has generated bipartisan dismay and dismissal:
<<Americans should vote for Donald Trump as president next month or risk being dragged into a nuclear war, according to a Russian ultra-nationalist ally of President Vladimir Putin who likes to compare himself to the U.S. Republican candidate.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky, a flamboyant veteran lawmaker known for his fiery rhetoric, told Reuters in an interview that Trump was the only person able to de-escalate dangerous tensions between Moscow and Washington.>>
Trump's claim of ignorance is disproved by his own admissions and business dealings with Russia.
<<Agalarov said he and Trump signed an agreement to build a Trump Tower in the heart of Moscow — at least Trump’s fifth attempt at such a venture. And Trump seemed energized by his interactions with Russia’s financial elite at the pageant and a glitzy after-party in a Moscow nightclub. “Almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump bragged to Real Estate Weekly upon returning home.>>
The cascade of denial among Trump supporters of state-sanctioned Russian hacking to influence the U.S. electoral process also ignores Trump's substantial financial involvement with Russians.
<<“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008, according to an account posted on the website of eTurboNews, a trade publication. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”>>
Trump clearly is motivated to promote his business franchise in addition to his candidacy. The former goal clearly motivates his deferential treatment of Putin and Russian oligarchs, resulting in Trump's ridiculous statements about the Ukraine, NATO, and Syria.
Auditors are taught to investigate around the computer, to take the big picture. With Trump, we see a man ingratiating himself to one of the world's most aggressive and anti-democratic dictators, a man who destroyed the Russian democratic revolution and has subverted the advance of democracy and self-determination globally. The Russian effort to advance Trump's campaign would clearly be consistent with the goals and historical transgressions against democracy practiced by Vladimir Putin.
No evidence is provided, only appeals to authority and unsubstantiated correlations. This wouldn't even hold up in court.
Also, the FBI is not a trustworthy source anyway. They are corrupt and obviously covering for Clinton. They refused to prosecute Clinton even though she violated the law. Comey stated she was negligent and yet this is not a requirement of the law she broke. In fact, a navy yeoman was prosecuted and used the same defense to which the judge dismissed saying negligence was not a component of the law.
The FBI is corrupt and not to be trusted.
The news is corrupt and is propagandizing the issue.
The White house is corrupt and making accusations it can not establish.
The DOJ is corrupt and colluded with the Clinton's to help avoid prosecution of Hillary.
Everything you used as evidence is suspect, corrupt and propaganda. It can not be trusted, especially when none of it can properly verify and validate its claims.
No evidence is provided, only appeals to authority and unsubstantiated correlations. This wouldn't even hold up in court.
Also, the FBI is not a trustworthy source anyway. They are corrupt and obviously covering for Clinton. They refused to prosecute Clinton even though she violated the law. Comey stated she was negligent and yet this is not a requirement of the law she broke. In fact, a navy yeoman was prosecuted and used the same defense to which the judge dismissed saying negligence was not a component of the law.
The FBI is corrupt and not to be trusted.
The news is corrupt and is propagandizing the issue.
The White house is corrupt and making accusations it can not establish.
The DOJ is corrupt and colluded with the Clinton's to help avoid prosecution of Hillary.
Everything you used as evidence is suspect, corrupt and propaganda. It can not be trusted, especially when none of it can properly verify and validate its claims.
Lies, corrupt lies from a corrupt government.
And furthered along by the MSM who is now in total control of the narrative thereby controlling our election process.
How's this for 'circumstantial' proof that Putin is trying to influence our election?
"...Americans should vote for Donald Trump as president next month or risk being dragged into a nuclear war, according to a Russian ultra-nationalist ally of President Vladimir Putin who likes to compare himself to the U.S. Republican candidate..."
Ginsberg violated the law and openly denounced a candidate and has made several comments on political issues she is not supposed to comment on, yet she still seems to be in office? I don't see you folks lining up to impeach her.
Yet... you are passing off 3rd party gossip from a known loud mouth to claim the intentions of the Russians? Do you even read the articles?
No evidence is provided, only appeals to authority and unsubstantiated correlations. This wouldn't even hold up in court.
Also, the FBI is not a trustworthy source anyway. They are corrupt and obviously covering for Clinton. They refused to prosecute Clinton even though she violated the law. Comey stated she was negligent and yet this is not a requirement of the law she broke. In fact, a navy yeoman was prosecuted and used the same defense to which the judge dismissed saying negligence was not a component of the law.
The FBI is corrupt and not to be trusted.
The news is corrupt and is propagandizing the issue.
The White house is corrupt and making accusations it can not establish.
The DOJ is corrupt and colluded with the Clinton's to help avoid prosecution of Hillary.
Everything you used as evidence is suspect, corrupt and propaganda. It can not be trusted, especially when none of it can properly verify and validate its claims.
Lies, corrupt lies from a corrupt government.
Do you deny that Trump has praised Putin and acquiesced to Putin's acts of aggression?
You and the other Trump supporters ignore what is slapping you in the face repeatedly -- in his efforts to promote his Russian business connections, Trump has promoted one of the most heinous dictators of our times.
You apparently love the fact that Putin has appointed his lackies, such as a personal bodyguard, to run Russian provinces. You are unconcerned that Putin has quashed Russian independent media. You agree with Trump that Putin's support for Syrian dictator Assad is fine, and that Putin actions in the Ukraine are acceptable. You have no concern about Trump's substantial undermining of NATO.
This is all good for the U.S. and its allies, in the eyes of Trump and his Trumpie worshipers.
Trump's support for Putin is despicable, but provides ample reason for Putin to launch a hacking campaign to promote Trump's candidacy and undermine the American electoral process. Putin's hackers are the best thing going for Trump in his current election debacle.
Let's see, who do I trust, Trump and Putin, who actions and statements are irrefutable, or the FBI and Homeland Security?
Tough one for Trump worshipers, but not for me and most rational Americans.
Most knowledgeable conservatives can't stomach Trump's support for Putin. So please explain why you support a candidate who admires Putin, an ardent foe of democracy? For myself and many others, Putin support is a disqualifying event for any Presidential candidate.
Ginsberg violated the law and openly denounced a candidate and has made several comments on political issues she is not supposed to comment on, yet she still seems to be in office? I don't see you folks lining up to impeach her.
Yet... you are passing off 3rd party gossip from a known loud mouth to claim the intentions of the Russians? Do you even read the articles?
Non sequitur much? I read it, but apparently you did not. Ginsberg?
This was a statement made by a real person. What gossip are you referring to???
"Relations between Russia and the United States can't get any worse. The only way they can get worse is if a war starts," said Zhirinovsky, speaking in his huge office on the 10th floor of Russia's State Duma, or lower house of parliament.
"Americans voting for a president on Nov. 8 must realize that they are voting for peace on Planet Earth if they vote for Trump. But if they vote for Hillary it's war. It will be a short movie. There will be Hiroshimas and Nagasakis everywhere."
Do you deny that Trump has praised Putin and acquiesced to Putin's acts of aggression?
You and the other Trump supporters ignore what is slapping you in the face repeatedly -- in his efforts to promote his Russian business connections, Trump has promoted one of the most heinous dictators of our times.
You apparently love the fact that Putin has appointed his lackies, such as a personal bodyguard, to run Russian provinces. You are unconcerned that Putin has quashed Russian independent media. You agree with Trump that Putin's support for Syrian dictator Assad is fine, and that Putin actions in the Ukraine are acceptable. You have no concern about Trump's substantial undermining of NATO.
This is all good for the U.S. and its allies, in the eyes of Trump and his Trumpie worshipers.
Trump's support for Putin is despicable, but provides ample reason for Putin to launch a hacking campaign to promote Trump's candidacy and undermine the American electoral process. Putin's hackers are the best thing going for Trump in his current election debacle.
Let's see, who do I trust, Trump and Putin, who actions and statements are irrefutable, or the FBI and Homeland Security?
Tough one for Trump worshipers, but not for me and most rational Americans.
Most knowledgeable conservatives can't stomach Trump's support for Putin. So please explain why you support a candidate who admires Putin, an ardent foe of democracy? For myself and many others, Putin support is a disqualifying event for any Presidential candidate.
You mean the same FBI and Homeland who either through their incompetence or territory protecting (or both) have allowed multiple terror attacks on our soil? You mean those guys?
The thing that concerns me a bit more is that the Dems, that have a good chance at being in complete control of everything in the country, are beginning to lay out an anti Russia narrative in their propaganda.
The rhetoric is increasing on both sides, ours and theirs.
Russia has moved Iskander missiles to the border of Poland, and have told their citizens to bring home any children they have studying abroad.
Germany, Chechoslavakia, among others have told their citizens to begin preparing for war and to stockpile.
Yet, our media makes no mention at all.
Is it possible the Russians are hacking? Or course. It's almost guaranteed. I'm pretty sure that isnt a one way street. The Internet is a battlefield, as is banking.
That isnt proof, but a strong argument that it is probably happening. When our Dear Leaders tell us they have "proof" we need to start worrying about where our troops will be deployed. Is hacking the election of a sovereign nation an act of war? I'm sure it's an easy argument to make.
Electronically speaking, Economically speaking, I think the war has already begun. It just hasnt gotten "hot" yet.
It's my view that all the wiki leaks drops are actually coming from within our government. They're being leaked by a faction of the intelligence community who is at odds with the current regime and understands their planning has failed.
I would just say further......If you are in the military and the regime tries to send you to Syria to fight the Russians - Don't go. Don't participate at all.
Last edited by At-Chilles; 10-13-2016 at 10:42 AM..
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