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Old 11-07-2016, 11:07 AM
 
1,432 posts, read 918,022 times
Reputation: 333

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
Perhaps an act of futility, but I'll try to talk reason with you here.




Democrats are not anti-American. They are very pro-American. It's the Republicans who try to label everything that is "not what they think" as anti-American. Oddly, that is the most anti-American thing they could do. Our strength is that we are a nation of open-minded people and we are innovators. You know, "new ideas". We can change with the times. Republicans seem to want America back in 1789. That would be nice and all, but in 2016 it just wouldn't work.


Understandably, many are afraid of this. Especially the small thinkers, who can't seem to plan beyond tomorrow. These are the same people who are likely in debt to their eyeballs, and who live check to check, EVEN if they make a good income.

Anyway, if you live in fear like that, then globalism is bad. However, if you can cobble together a vision, it's an opportunity. America is great because of our innovation. We are great because we don't quit. We are great because we are the most productive workforce in the history of the world. So instead of abandoning those things, so you can hang onto your minimum wage job at the textile plant, or so you can keep breathing black soot at your coal-mining job, in a failing industry, why not read the writing on the wall. Invent things. make things better. do the jobs that require more education and that set us apart. Your progressive government wants to give you (the American people) the tools and the skills to do it, but you've been programed to be mistrustful of anything and anyone who is different. Take the skills. Quit your nasty job in the coal-mine, double your pay, and work in a new, clean environment making the next medicine, or building the next generation of computer chips, or designing the factory of tomorrow. Do something of conseqence, AND GET PAID FOR IT.


It is really sad. And the real anti-American sentiment is coming from the small-minded Trump supporters.
You sound like you work in academia. Fortunately I left there many, many yrs ago. People sit and pontificate, and think they understand the common man, and able to generalize. It is pretty silly to try and tell people, oh, get a vision. Just b/c you have spent, 20, 30 yrs doing the same thing, we in the Democratic party know whats best. We have decided to kill the coal industry. It might fail if left to free markets, but will certainly die due to leftist regulations. Did you think that maybe people working in coal for 20-30 yrs, don't want the progressive govt to give them skills to do something different? Did you think the fear is real, or are you guided by your self imposed elitism, and enhance self worth? Many people, don't want to work in the clean environment...and certainly not in the smoke and mirror jobs that are promised, that never seem to materialize.

I am not in the coal, industry, but well educated in a very technical space. I would never be so so pompous to tell someone else they should quit what they have been doing for years, to say, I know what is best for you, ....we are going to use govt regulations and made up rules by the EPA to get rid of your job, but don't be fearful, we know what is best for you. That is exactly what people do not want to hear. Are you that deft?

I am supporting Trump b/c I will not support someone as corrupt at Clinton. To say Trump folks are small minded, show how little smarts you have...
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,932,841 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secchamps98 View Post
You sound like you work in academia. Fortunately I left there many, many yrs ago. People sit and pontificate, and think they understand the common man, and able to generalize. It is pretty silly to try and tell people, oh, get a vision. Just b/c you have spent, 20, 30 yrs doing the same thing, we in the Democratic party know whats best. We have decided to kill the coal industry. It might fail if left to free markets, but will certainly die due to leftist regulations. Did you think that maybe people working in coal for 20-30 yrs, don't want the progressive govt to give them skills to do something different? Did you think the fear is real, or are you guided by your self imposed elitism, and enhance self worth? Many people, don't want to work in the clean environment...and certainly not in the smoke and mirror jobs that are promised, that never seem to materialize.

I am not in the coal, industry, but well educated in a very technical space. I would never be so so pompous to tell someone else they should quit what they have been doing for years, to say, I know what is best for you, ....we are going to use govt regulations and made up rules by the EPA to get rid of your job, but don't be fearful, we know what is best for you. That is exactly what people do not want to hear. Are you that deft?
Exactly. I'm in the same position, highly educated/in the IT field. I think some people need to get out of the textbook/theory world, think beyond themselves instead of their "me me me" world and into reality.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: NC
7,045 posts, read 4,981,097 times
Reputation: 7813
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Too simplistic. It's a much bigger issue/far more complicated than how you frame. For example, the trade imbalances are very unfair to America. There's nothing wrong with outsourcing things but when the system is so far slanted this/that way, it's not right and should be addressed. A nation shouldn't be used. There's nothing wrong with implementing policies to get some manufacturing jobs back in the US because everyone isn't smart enough to work in IT, be doctors, design chips, etc. That's the true reality. And btw, lots of IT jobs that require lots of education are being outsourced/bringing in cheap labor on visas from overseas to replace "the educated" jobs you talk about that people need to get into so again, it's no so simple as you paint it. I know about this ...I worked many areas inhigher end IT positions.

I think there's a middle ground here. And I think trump has some good ideas in cleaning up our trade deals/imbalances and start leveling the playing field. As you know, with money/donors who benefit from our current system, you'll here from them the wonders of how globalism is the begin and end all for everything. And if one believes that, I have ocean front property in iowa for you.
I never once mentioned IT jobs. They can (and will) be outsourced. I was referring to advance manufacturing jobs. They typically can be had with a good 2 year degree, and we'd be much more competitive if we went back to teaching and focusing on STEM in school.

Trump is the worst offender of outsourcing jobs. Maybe that's OK, but his actions don't back up his scare-tactics.

As far as pulling out of trade agreements for imbalance, I think that is what has been over-simplified. You can't just do that. I guess we could, but the fallout would be worse than the bad trade deals.

I think that people forget that we are basically at full employment right now. The low "participation rate" is due to the growing number of boomers and of people too old (and young) to work. There are, and always will be some who don't want to work. No politician will fix that. But if you want to stop stagnated wages, we need to gravitate toward higher paying jobs. Advance manufacturing is the way to go, and it's what America is best at.

I'd also through out there that we can do better with our Cybersecurity laws, but the right has blocked most of them too. We loose more of our innovative edge through cyber-theft and any other way.


BTW: My work: I have spent the last decade and a half of my career in adult learning and professional development, specifically in the high-tech sector. Our company trains the high tech (not the low tech) people who run refineries, power plants, pipelines, water treatment, chip manufacturers, pharma, defense and etc. We don't do IT, but we are in a pivotal role the covergence of OT and IT, and we employ world leaders in technology. The number one pain of employers today (in our industries) is finding enough qualified people to run the plant. There are skilled labor jobs out there paying way more than six figures to people without batchelor degrees, yet people are still whining about their $15/hr textile or coal jobs...
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:14 AM
 
1,640 posts, read 547,546 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secchamps98 View Post
You sound like you work in academia. Fortunately I left there many, many yrs ago. People sit and pontificate, and think they understand the common man, and able to generalize. It is pretty silly to try and tell people, oh, get a vision. Just b/c you have spent, 20, 30 yrs doing the same thing, we in the Democratic party know whats best. We have decided to kill the coal industry. It might fail if left to free markets, but will certainly die due to leftist regulations. Did you think that maybe people working in coal for 20-30 yrs, don't want the progressive govt to give them skills to do something different? Did you think the fear is real, or are you guided by your self imposed elitism, and enhance self worth? Many people, don't want to work in the clean environment...and certainly not in the smoke and mirror jobs that are promised, that never seem to materialize.

I am not in the coal, industry, but well educated in a very technical space. I would never be so so pompous to tell someone else they should quit what they have been doing for years, to say, I know what is best for you, ....we are going to use govt regulations and made up rules by the EPA to get rid of your job, but don't be fearful, we know what is best for you. That is exactly what people do not want to hear. Are you that deft?

I am supporting Trump b/c I will not support someone as corrupt at Clinton. To say Trump folks are small minded, show how little smarts you have...
At the very least our society, and subsequently our government, should be supportive to those in need of skill acquirement when change comes. As a society, imo, we should be raising our children with a level of learning flexibility so they can adapt when necessary. This is important independent of field. I've witnesses it in pharma. A bench scientist can get too complacent with the day to day. If you're in a tech field you probably know what I mean. It's not good and you lose value if you aren't growing and showing your face.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Places you dream of
20,277 posts, read 12,147,548 times
Reputation: 8793
vote them OUT this is the reason we are in this distress- the congress has to flip over and get a huge overhaul!
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Center City, Philadelphia
4,634 posts, read 2,788,753 times
Reputation: 2986
We are sending Toomey packing tomorrow!
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:19 AM
 
1,491 posts, read 416,165 times
Reputation: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
They are doing their job. They were elected to represent the people of their local communities and states that voted for them, not for Clinton necessarily. Not letting Clinton push through a left wing agenda is part of that. Get a grip. Just because they probably won't want to kiss her behind, doesn't mean they aren't doing their job.
Thanks to gerrymandered they represent a very small percentage of the whole population.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,932,841 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
I never once mentioned IT jobs.
You missed the general point/IT example I used to make my point. You were talking that people should educate themselves and get jobs that way.

Here's what I was referring to in your previous post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
Quit your nasty job in the coal-mine, double your pay, and work in a new, clean environment making the next medicine, or building the next generation of computer chips, or designing the factory of tomorrow. Do something of conseqence, AND GET PAID FOR IT.
And I said the reality is many people don't have what it takes to work in IT, design chips, design the factory of tomorrow, etc. And it's elitist/unrealistic to think the vast majority of americans will be in such positions. And it doesn't take away from the fact that we do indeed have bad trade deals with other nations/we are being used on that front. I have nothing against a global marketplace. But our nation should smarten up and make better trade deals. But of course that's hard to do with our bought and sold system.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:20 AM
 
1,491 posts, read 416,165 times
Reputation: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
You missed the general point/IT example I used to make my point. You were talking that people should educate themselves and get jobs that way.



And I said the reality is many people don't have what it takes to work in IT, design chips, design the factory of tomorrow, etc. And it's elitist/unrealistic to think the vast majority of americans will be in such positions.
What it takes is quality public education for a start.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Center City, Philadelphia
4,634 posts, read 2,788,753 times
Reputation: 2986
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
You missed the general point/IT example I used to make my point. You were talking that people should educate themselves and get jobs that way.



And I said the reality is many people don't have what it takes to work in IT, design chips, design the factory of tomorrow, etc. And it's elitist/unrealistic to think the vast majority of americans will be in such positions.
Not if you learn OOP when you are in elementary school instead of freshman year of college
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