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Old 11-07-2016, 11:23 AM
 
1,640 posts, read 541,955 times
Reputation: 813

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
You missed the general point/IT example I used to make my point. You were talking that people should educate themselves and get jobs that way.

Here's what I was referring to in your previous post:



And I said the reality is many people don't have what it takes to work in IT, design chips, design the factory of tomorrow, etc. And it's elitist/unrealistic to think the vast majority of americans will be in such positions. And it doesn't take away from the fact that we do indeed have bad trade deals with other nations/we are being used on that front.
I would hope yesterdays mfg worker is tomorrow's sophisticated technician.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,903,403 times
Reputation: 7699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstarling View Post
What it takes is quality public education for a start.
That's helpful of course but more than that, it starts with quality parents who instill education/the benefits of it. And as I look around in my life experiences, we are indeed short of quality parents in this regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
Not if you learn OOP when you are in elementary school instead of freshman year of college
I think we should first start with basic math, geography, etc. that even most college graduates are clueless on. Watch some old episodes of "Jay walking" on youtube with Jay Leno to get an idea of what I mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassy Fae View Post
I would hope yesterdays mfg worker is tomorrow's sophisticated technician.
Hope doesn't equate to reality. I'm not being condescending here but you really must understand many aren't cut out for a lot of this highly skilled/educated work. Everyone doesn't have the talent/smarts to do such things. Now if you say running a small business or something to fulfill a type of service/product in demand, I think this is a more realistic path.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:31 AM
 
26,295 posts, read 17,225,929 times
Reputation: 10277
The GOP supposedly did a so called autopsy after the last election in order to reevaluate the party and make necessary changes to be more inclusive and less partisan. And the best they could produce was a reality celebrity with a large amount of personal and professional baggage who is a birther king...just wow! And now they are threatening to obstruct and sabotage as they did with Obama. IMO, the county needs to split and leave the nitwits to their own devices. The GOP and the fringe groups are holding the country back and that dumbazz slogan of making America great again means going azz-backward while the rest of the civilized world is leaving the USA in the dust. We are the laughing stock because of the right wing and Trump as a candidate.

Last edited by sickofnyc; 11-07-2016 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,903,403 times
Reputation: 7699
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
The GOP supposedly did autopsy after the last election in order to reevaluate the party and make necessary changes to be more inclusive and less partisan. And the best they could produce was a reality celebrity with a large amount of personal and professional baggage who is a birther king...just wow! And now they are threatening to obstruct and sabotage as they did with Obama. IMO, the county needs to split and leave the nitwits to their own devices. The GOP and the fringe groups are holding the country back and that dumbazz slogan of making America great again means going azz-backward while the rest of the civilized world is leaving the USA in the dust. We are the laughing stock because of the right wing and Trump as a candidate.
Attention....the dems, obama, with a super-majority of dems in congress for several years that gave us the "Affordable" health care act "keep your own doctor" nonsense, have been running the show for the last almost 8 years now. And look at our economy(the real unemployment numbers), the shrinking middle class, the division in our nation, the shape of the inner cities, our national debt, etc. And this wonderful divided nation we have from the last 8 years:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/06/politi...zed/index.html

"Obama most polarizing president in modern history"

So stop, really. Both parties are pathetic and don't serve the people. Donors rule and it's a bought and sold game and you're not included. That's why trump and sanders(until he sold out) rose to where they are. This team stuff is really beyond pathetic and the money is so glad many of you in the herd play into it but many in the herd are to naive to get it.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:39 AM
 
Location: NC
6,954 posts, read 4,935,237 times
Reputation: 7702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secchamps98 View Post
You sound like you work in academia. Fortunately I left there many, many yrs ago. People sit and pontificate, and think they understand the common man, and able to generalize. It is pretty silly to try and tell people, oh, get a vision. Just b/c you have spent, 20, 30 yrs doing the same thing, we in the Democratic party know whats best. We have decided to kill the coal industry. It might fail if left to free markets, but will certainly die due to leftist regulations. Did you think that maybe people working in coal for 20-30 yrs, don't want the progressive govt to give them skills to do something different? Did you think the fear is real, or are you guided by your self imposed elitism, and enhance self worth? Many people, don't want to work in the clean environment...and certainly not in the smoke and mirror jobs that are promised, that never seem to materialize.

I am not in the coal, industry, but well educated in a very technical space. I would never be so so pompous to tell someone else they should quit what they have been doing for years, to say, I know what is best for you, ....we are going to use govt regulations and made up rules by the EPA to get rid of your job, but don't be fearful, we know what is best for you. That is exactly what people do not want to hear. Are you that deft?

I am supporting Trump b/c I will not support someone as corrupt at Clinton. To say Trump folks are small minded, show how little smarts you have...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
You missed the general point/IT example I used to make my point. You were talking that people should educate themselves and get jobs that way.

Here's what I was referring to in your previous post:



And I said the reality is many people don't have what it takes to work in IT, design chips, design the factory of tomorrow, etc. And it's elitist/unrealistic to think the vast majority of americans will be in such positions. And it doesn't take away from the fact that we do indeed have bad trade deals with other nations/we are being used on that front. I have nothing against a global marketplace. But our nation should smarten up and make better trade deals. But of course that's hard to do with our bought and sold system.
You two BOTH missed my point. I'm not in academia and I'm not an elitist telling people what they should or should not do. What I am saying is that the world changes. It's not at my whim, it just happens. You have to respond if you want to thrive.

Are either of you parents? If you are (I am), do you raise your kids to be victim of circumstance? Or do you raise them to face every challenge with a resolve to do the best they can? I choose the latter. FWIW, I have a child with multiple and major medical issues. They are genetic, and will never be cured (unless a genetic cure is found, which is possible. She has Cystic Fibrosis and other issues). Anyway, I could have raised her to say "Daughter, you have CF. You'll never be able to keep up with the other kids. You'll be out of work, sick a lot, and one day you'll die of lung disease." I chose another path. I told her that she has challenges. Everyone has challenges, but hers are great. She's going to have to work a little bit harder because of that. But there is almost NOTHING she can't do if she sets her mind to it. If she wants to run a marathon, she can train and do it. Probably won't win an olympic gold, but she can be one of the few who runs a marathon. Her lungs are, and always will be compromised. She can give into that now, and probably won't live to see 40, or she can do her Physical Therapy, she can make healthy choices, and be one of the ones who lives to see 60, or 70, or maybe she'll live to see a cure. And she's out of school more than other kids. I could tell her she'll never keep a job, but instead I encourage her to tough it out when she can, and to stay caught up when she can't. And to seek a career that is aligned with her interest and passion, but also that has flexiblity. (of all people, she probably doesn't need to be a coal worker...)

Do you get my point? It's exactly the same for the coal workers (who I seem to be picking on today). They can take on the victim mentality and cry all the way to the unemployment line, or they can take advantages of the opportunities that are already out there for them. They can better themselves, improve themselves and change with the times. If they elect politicians that will do the same, then there will be jobs for them. If they elect politicians that don't understand (or don't subscribe to) the basic tenants of Capitalism, then they will not have those opportunities. Instead, their politicians will prop up a dying industry, and it will be the only option available to them, and the cycle will repeat.

Let me put it in terms that those of you who listen to Trump, Rush and Hannity might understand. It's just like welfare recipients. If you keep propping them up, they'll never change. Throwing money at an industry that can't and won't make it on it's own is corporate welfare, and it has the same effect.

Heck, you think I'm a lib. I'm saying they can quit their coal job and go work for a refinery. For a pipeline. That's where the money is, and that's where the future is. If not that, then (even better), work for a company making renewable energy. But you have to take the intitiative, and you have to elect people who are not afraid of progress. Today's GOP is afraid of change, and their cowering in the corner, protecting the past is killing (not helping) their constituency.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Washington State
18,277 posts, read 9,475,270 times
Reputation: 15565
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
And the GOP has learned...nothing.

GOP strategist: Clinton will win -- but Congress won't work with her

GOP strategist: Clinton will win -- but Congress won't work with her - CNNPolitics.com

"Unfortunately, instead of seeing this as an opportunity for Republicans to do a little self-introspection, a chance to look beyond ourselves, and to rise to the moment -- which would help us grow nationally," said Weaver, "the instinct will be to throw landmines, not to govern and to cause problems above and beyond being just the normal loyal opposition ideologically."
Good....what I'm hoping for. When she tries to sell our weapons to ISIS and sell the WHite House and Yosemite to the Chinese, glad to know Congress will try to stop her.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:41 AM
 
Location: North America
19,634 posts, read 12,407,743 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
Good....what I'm hoping for. When she tries to sell our weapons to ISIS and sell the WHite House and Yosemite to the Chinese, glad to know Congress will try to stop her.
Do you have anything at all to add except for Trump talking points?
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:41 AM
 
7,980 posts, read 3,441,073 times
Reputation: 11224
This could be the end of the Republican Party. Who needs another 4 years of Obstruction?
We need to seriously re evaluate the unraveling of our democracy. Seems like unless you are hard right wing these Republicans won't play ball. This is very sad for the country. Too bad these Obstructionists aren't as patriotic as their flag waving and flag pins on their suit suggests.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:42 AM
 
1,640 posts, read 541,955 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Hope doesn't equate to reality. I'm not being condescending here but you really must understand many aren't cut out for a lot of this highly skilled/educated work. Everyone doesn't have the talent/smarts to do such things. Now if you say running a small business or something to fulfill a type of service/product in demand, I think this is a more realistic path.
What I'm thinking, and this is only an anecdote, pertains to one of gf's who hasn't been a motivated person through out her life and definitely didn't have the attention span for college. But, in her state of MI during the massive unemployment we had 7-8 years ago she did sign up for a program to become a surgical technologist (they pass the instruments in the OR). They put her through community college for less than a year for the certification. She got herself a job at a hospital. She won't get rich, but she earns in the mid-60s and that's not bad in her neck of the woods. The MI taxpayer paid for it and it's working out. It's not a heady job, but she really enjoys it. So, I think there could be something for a lot of people that doesn't necessarily require a great deal of education.

I also want to add that I don't think people give themselves enough credit. Unless someone has intellectual disabilities they could probably manage a lot more than they think.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:48 AM
 
9,564 posts, read 5,910,592 times
Reputation: 6473
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
And the GOP has learned...nothing.

GOP strategist: Clinton will win -- but Congress won't work with her

GOP strategist: Clinton will win -- but Congress won't work with her - CNNPolitics.com

"Unfortunately, instead of seeing this as an opportunity for Republicans to do a little self-introspection, a chance to look beyond ourselves, and to rise to the moment -- which would help us grow nationally," said Weaver, "the instinct will be to throw landmines, not to govern and to cause problems above and beyond being just the normal loyal opposition ideologically."
The GOP strategist is dead wrong. Congress will work with her, some will go on Fox News and call her names, but inside the halls they will work with her.

Why do I say that? Because that was exactly what happened when Hillary was in the Senate. Her allies included hard core conservatives like Brownback and Santorum. We know that now because they both left the Senate and not afraid to admit they were close allies with Hillary. She has many more conservative allies still in Congress, and you will never know who they are because they will rile her in public even as they work closely after hours.

The GOP cooperation with Hillary was so rampant that Karl Rove once circulated a memo to his fellow conservatives to stop working with Hillary. No one listened.

The source of this is the article in Atlantic. I'll see if I can find it.

.
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