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Old 05-01-2017, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,526 posts, read 5,456,582 times
Reputation: 5290

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
People have ignored the industrial Midwest for a generation now. Headlines of layoffs, economic ruin and misery have poured out of places like Milwaukee, Gary, Detroit and Akron for many years. All this time they have been ignored or even mocked and ridiculed for thier misery and suffering. Some of the problems up there are of the people of those states own making, unions, high taxes and regulation are part of what happened there and that is indeed thier own fault. However an equal fault is in the reckless trade agreements signed by our government. Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio delivered Trump the White House. Those people are a generation into economic misery, thier cities are in some cases literally ruins(Detroit) some have unsafe water, and much of the infrastructure is crumbling. Drive through lower Michigan, Ohio and northern Indiana and you will see why they are angry. You need a Prozac after driving through it but millions of Americans actually have to live with those conditions and those conditions were partially caused by the mainstream political leaders in Washington. I doubt any ignores them for a while after this, the red/blue balance has shifted because of them. If trump has any success in bringing some of those jobs back to Mi, Oh, Wi etc those states will be as red as a southern state for the next 50 years.
Yes, exactly.

I don't think any politician will be able to help the Rust Belt though. The globalization and automation cats are out of the bag.
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:18 AM
 
3,333 posts, read 4,304,543 times
Reputation: 2203
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I am not letting the Republicans off the hook. Many of them were and still are supporters of the rich. This last election was not a vote for Republicans; it was a vote for change and that meant in both Parties. So far the biggest challenge to this change has come from the Republicans that think we voted for them.

I have to agree with this. So many times politicians, parties and the more dedicated members of the parties think they 'own' their voters. As if there was a NFL style draft and they had won them. So no need to tend to voters needs/preferences and no need to really compete... In this go round this attitude is what killed Team Hillary. She did not even compete in the Rust Belt states other than PA. And in PA she only focused on cities. In past elections it is what bit Rs in the rear. Both parties tend to go off the rails when they focus entirely on social issues in a Presidential election.


I won't say that this was an overall Dem problem because we now know of atleast a dozen dem politicians who had warned/adviced the Hillary camp for a year to dial in- Bill, Stabenow, Rendell, Conyers, one of the big Dems in Pittsburg, so on, so forth. Instead she trotted out Labron James and had one of her communications people caught in the boondoggle of trying to pull an endorsement out of Darius Rucker. All the while she couldn't kick the Sanders supporters to the curb fast enough for her folks tastes.


This election literally came down to Dane (Wi), Wayne (Mi) and either one of Pittsburg or Philly. Heck if she had taken Rendell's advise and gone into rural areas (which Obama did in each of his runs) she would have survived the lower turnout in those D strongholds.


I think what might kill Trump in 3.5 years is that some of his promises are just not feasible. You cannot bring back coal. You cannot stop losing existing/previous jobs to automation even if you do bring in new jobs. You cannot make employers want to locate in Michigan or Wisconsin or rural PA instead of Texas, Georgia or Colorado. And you can't cut taxes across the board, raise spending and reduce the debt simultaneously.
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Old 05-01-2017, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,277 posts, read 11,624,769 times
Reputation: 10682
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpeatie View Post
I think what might kill Trump in 3.5 years is that some of his promises are just not feasible. You cannot bring back coal. You cannot stop losing existing/previous jobs to automation even if you do bring in new jobs. You cannot make employers want to locate in Michigan or Wisconsin or rural PA instead of Texas, Georgia or Colorado. And you can't cut taxes across the board, raise spending and reduce the debt simultaneously.
We hire politicians to work for us; they are not Gods and they deserve no free ride. As long as it appears and is believed that they are working for us; then we are happy. Of course Trump will not get everything he asks for. 2018 will be very interesting. This past election was a wakeup call for everybody. We are not as gullible or nave as we were before the internet - times have changed and the old strategy of 'promise us anything and forget' will not work. We also understand that everybody has opposition and that nothing is easy.

But, maybe more so that Trump and non-performance; the Democrats have to find a new direction. They also have to abandon most of their current leadership. We know that we cannot stop automation. But we are not so dumb that we want automation teamed up with globalization - that would be suicidal for the working class.
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Old 05-01-2017, 10:06 AM
 
773 posts, read 276,987 times
Reputation: 514
In October 2016, I drove down from Maryland to NC and didn't get behind/pass one single car with a Hillary bumper sticker. I know this because I made it a point to observe her level of outward support as I drove down. However, what I did get behind were 4 cars with Trump stickers. Not many, right? No, but here's the difference. All four of the cars had black drivers/occupants. I knew right then and there Trump would win the election.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,779 posts, read 2,691,577 times
Reputation: 7000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Yes, exactly.

I don't think any politician will be able to help the Rust Belt though. The globalization and automation cats are out of the bag.
Somehow though the voters in those Rust Belt states that Trump won don't want to face economic reality.
Detroit isn't mess because of who lives there or what party governs it. The city is a victim of capitalism and being a one industry town. The tax base of the middle class in Detroit fled when the jobs left decades ago.
Automakers went to places overseas where there were no Unions or $25 a hour wages , health insurance and pensions and profits only mattered.
It's funny how people blame Democrats for the state that Detroit finds itself in when globalization is to blame.
Same with Pittsburgh and the steel industry or the textile industry in the South.
Until Americans in those states are willing to be paid the same wages as those overseas workers manufacturing jobs will not return to the US despite what Trump has promised them.
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Old 05-01-2017, 01:59 PM
 
8,059 posts, read 4,395,330 times
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I hesitate to even bring up something as inconsequential as the popular vote when our presidential election system is constitutionally defined as an electoral representative system. Like forever, dude. But, ....

California - where most of the popular vote edge occurred - either is already or is becoming an outlier in America.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,562 posts, read 16,711,588 times
Reputation: 26120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
They lost because they couldn't promise to make it 1951 again, coal jobs and a return to manufacturing in the rust belt. If Clinton promised steel mills and coal mines would return she would be president.
It's this type of attitude that emanates from the left that caused the loss. Add to that the derision for anyone who is white, hating on "country people" or "Southern people" or "rednecks" or "blue class whites", etc, and the fact that the coastal elitist snots consider these people as something to be ridiculed and mocked, repeatedly...that's how you lose an election.

It wasn't just Hillary Clinton. That's what the Dems don't get. She was a big, fat part of it, but it wasn't just because of her.

The left needs to shove their arrogant attitudes up their backsides and start listening. Until they do, they will continue to lose to those "stupid, single toothed, poor, trashy, cousin marrying, moonshine swilling, Bible thumping, racists".

Labels, dems. Do you get that yet? LABELS are what kills any hopes for wins. Stop labeling everyone. The very fact that so many on the left hate being grouped in with antifa, or hate being grouped in with elitists in the party, or hate being grouped in with those are extreme or far left should tell you all that no one likes to be labeled.

Drop the arrogance.
Drop the labels.
Drop the PC bs.
Drop the idea that we "need" government to enforce what you want.

Let people be free, who cares if they don't live how you live, you do your part and worry about yourself.
Let people work. Stop allowing people in who take the jobs away from them, and stop denying that it happens.
Act like you actually care about this country...too many of you don't. It's always, "Why can't we be like Sweeeeeeeden" or "Geeeeermany" or "the Neeeeetherlands". We aren't them for a reason. If that's what you want, make yourself marketable to those countries and GO THERE.

Your leaders keep insulting, you're going to keep losing. (It's why I laugh when the left gets all riled up because "omg! Trump is insulting people!" Yeah, how does that taste?)

Sincerely,

A Deplorable (coined by HRC herself)
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:25 PM
 
773 posts, read 276,987 times
Reputation: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
It's this type of attitude that emanates from the left that caused the loss. Add to that the derision for anyone who is white, hating on "country people" or "Southern people" or "rednecks" or "blue class whites", etc, and the fact that the coastal elitist snots consider these people as something to be ridiculed and mocked, repeatedly...that's how you lose an election.

It wasn't just Hillary Clinton. That's what the Dems don't get. She was a big, fat part of it, but it wasn't just because of her.

The left needs to shove their arrogant attitudes up their backsides and start listening. Until they do, they will continue to lose to those "stupid, single toothed, poor, trashy, cousin marrying, moonshine swilling, Bible thumping, racists".

Labels, dems. Do you get that yet? LABELS are what kills any hopes for wins. Stop labeling everyone.
I concur with this post 100%. Democrats - if they expect to ever win again - need to realize that looking down their nose at their fellow Americans who are simply wanting to work and provide is not a viable political strategy.
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
198 posts, read 241,632 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
To be fair: a LOT of Obama voters did NOT want Hillary; had the Dems nominated Sanders, IMHO Trump would've lost and, I'm a Repub who voted for Trump but voted for Obama in 2008.


See I'm not 100% sure about that. I think that Bernie would have scared off Moderates way worse then Hillary. I voted for Trump but I wouldn't have minded Hillary too bad if Bernie wouldn't have pushed her so far left. That is why she was trying so hard to stay in the center. She knew it would cost her in the election. I think Bernie is the reason she lost.
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
198 posts, read 241,632 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Somehow though the voters in those Rust Belt states that Trump won don't want to face economic reality.
Detroit isn't mess because of who lives there or what party governs it. The city is a victim of capitalism and being a one industry town. The tax base of the middle class in Detroit fled when the jobs left decades ago.
Automakers went to places overseas where there were no Unions or $25 a hour wages , health insurance and pensions and profits only mattered.
It's funny how people blame Democrats for the state that Detroit finds itself in when globalization is to blame.
Same with Pittsburgh and the steel industry or the textile industry in the South.
Until Americans in those states are willing to be paid the same wages as those overseas workers manufacturing jobs will not return to the US despite what Trump has promised them.


So how do you think the Democrats plan of higher taxation, Over Regulation, Tolerance of Illegal Immigration and Bad Trade Deals would bring those jobs back better then the Republican plan? What is your argument? According to you those jobs are going to struggle to survive so we should make it impossible for them to survive?
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