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Old 09-05-2017, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,253 posts, read 1,716,958 times
Reputation: 3080

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I distinctly remember in school that I was taught that Athenian democracy was not only excluded slaves and women, but it was open only to a select portion of free male society.





I don't remember being told in school that American democracy during the time of the founding fathers was even more exclusive than Athenian democracy. I think I would have remembered that fact. If the above quote is actually true, then a smaller percentage of the USA population was voting in Presidential elections, than under the Athenian oligarchy system.

If the elections were determined by less than 4% of the population (and under 1% for the two re-elections with no rival candidate) than I actually think the word oligarchy is more appropriate than democracy.

It was the Democratic Party that really opened up suffrage to a fairly large proportion of free male society. It does sort of make sense given the name of the party.
I've continued to read and learn long after graduating high school.

The freedom and accessibility of information is terribly underappreciated.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:40 PM
 
9,819 posts, read 10,062,529 times
Reputation: 5256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
I've continued to read and learn long after graduating high school.
There are a lot of things to read. I see many references to the founding fathers in essays. President Trump seems to have created a minor industry in speculation as to how the founding fathers would have viewed Trump.

But there is a lot of merit in the following statement.

There is also no question that the Founding Fathers created an oligarchy, not a republic or a democracy.
https://thoughtcatalog.com/avery-bis...nding-fathers/
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:55 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,854 posts, read 1,649,933 times
Reputation: 3611
Default Overinformed, & much of it is piffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
I've continued to read and learn long after graduating high school.

The freedom and accessibility of information is terribly underappreciated.
Certainly the Founding Fathers of the US were very leery about establishing a democracy, in the purest sense of the word. These were many of the leading lights of their generation in N. America - & they were very uncomfortable with the notion of setting up a mobocracy - probably the kindest thing they had to say about establishing the franchise on a universal basis.

A republic is probably a more accurate description of the structure they created - but as noted, the franchise was sharply withheld from the vast majority of the population in the nascent United States. & this held true up until Pres. Jackson's time.

Yah, the US now suffers from the opposite of censorship - there's a positive glut of information, some false, some deliberately misleading, some so far gone that it might as well be called disinformation. The trick is to distinguish among them, & try to discern something that resembles the truth.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:17 AM
 
9,819 posts, read 10,062,529 times
Reputation: 5256
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
Certainly the Founding Fathers of the US were very leery about establishing a democracy, in the purest sense of the word. These were many of the leading lights of their generation in N. America - & they were very uncomfortable with the notion of setting up a mobocracy - probably the kindest thing they had to say about establishing the franchise on a universal basis.

A republic is probably a more accurate description of the structure they created - but as noted, the franchise was sharply withheld from the vast majority of the population in the nascent United States. & this held true up until Pres. Jackson's time.
If it is really true that Athenians permitted up to 30% of the population to vote, and they voted directly on issues, while Americans had less than 4% of the population vote, then " democracy, in the purest sense of the word" or even a "republic" is not very accurate. I think "oligarchy" sounds more accurate.
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