U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-15-2018, 09:15 AM
 
29,965 posts, read 47,065,612 times
Reputation: 15870

Advertisements

The defense that "collusion" isn't a crime just uses semantics to claim innocence--
Not a very strong defense and one that can certainly be overwhelmed with evidence of other legal terms--
Like "conspiracy"

I don't think "Treason" can be used because technically the US wasn't in a declared war with Russia -- and I think a declared war is necessary to prosecute people who work with foreign interests to subvert the interests/government of America

But the Constitution does also include "...or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." So maybe following a Russian game plan to hack an election and install a person who is enriched by his "aiding" enemies of America would work...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-15-2018, 09:35 AM
 
29,965 posts, read 47,065,612 times
Reputation: 15870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss1234 View Post
Got any reliable sources with the evidence to back it up or are you just talking out of your ass? It hasn't been proven that Trump colluded with Russia. It HAS been proven that Hillary Clinton colluded with Russia and sold them Uranium. Why not focus on her and the evidence that backs it up?
If was proven then why wasn't she indicted?
Because it was opinion pieces by the alt-right...

Find an argument that has some legal teeth...
And find some way to prove Trumps ISN'T involved in all this just inept, greedy, hubristic rush to make money off connections with criminals Trump has surrounded himself with...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
31,109 posts, read 19,649,414 times
Reputation: 44893
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
The defense that "collusion" isn't a crime just uses semantics to claim innocence--
Not a very strong defense and one that can certainly be overwhelmed with evidence of other legal terms--
Like "conspiracy"

I don't think "Treason" can be used because technically the US wasn't in a declared war with Russia -- and I think a declared war is necessary to prosecute people who work with foreign interests to subvert the interests/government of America

But the Constitution does also include "...or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." So maybe following a Russian game plan to hack an election and install a person who is enriched by his "aiding" enemies of America would work...
As I understand it "collusion" itself is not a crime, but the crimes you colluded on are still crimes.

It's weird, and I'm not sure I fully understand it.
__________________
____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:30 AM
 
Location: north central Ohio
8,422 posts, read 4,323,372 times
Reputation: 4976
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Trump has obviously surrounded himself with criminals, and he himself has been sued endlessly long before he became president. While that doesn't necessarily mean he colluded, it does indicate that he is far from being above suspicion, and that there is no logical reason that he should be afforded benefit of the doubt on this. The investigation is not concluded, and the longer it goes, the worse it gets for Trump. That should make any Trump supporter nervous, and it obviously does given how often they use whataboutisms and deflections. The fact that you think a candidate working with a foreign nation to undermine the American system is totally fine says a lot about your patriotism, though, or should we say, how it is nonexistent.

EXACTLY! It seems that all the trump supporters are anti-American TREASONOUS FASCISTS, just like Trump! They should all be deported to Russia!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:44 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,194 posts, read 16,516,215 times
Reputation: 8847
What "collusion?"
1. "Collusion" isn't a crime.
2. The President didn't "collude" with Russia.

I can't believe some of you are still repeating this "collusion" meme.

Get a clue: THERE HAS BEEN NO COLLUSION ON THE PART OF THE TRUMP TEAM.

If anybody has colluded with Russia, it was the Hillary Clinton campaign and the DNC, who paid for a phony "dossier" on President Trump.

Give it up! You lost the election, and you did it on your own, without any help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
31,109 posts, read 19,649,414 times
Reputation: 44893
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
What "collusion?"
1. "Collusion" isn't a crime.
2. The President didn't "collude" with Russia.

I can't believe some of you are still repeating this "collusion" meme.

Get a clue: THERE HAS BEEN NO COLLUSION ON THE PART OF THE TRUMP TEAM.

If anybody has colluded with Russia, it was the Hillary Clinton campaign and the DNC, who paid for a phony "dossier" on President Trump.

Give it up! You lost the election, and you did it on your own, without any help.

A lot of people have been indicted, a lot of people are cooperating with law enforcement, and a lot of crimes are being unearthed.

Whether one specific crime has occurred is still up in the air, as the investigation is on going. They are not going to publicly disclose everything they are looking at, investigations don't work that way.

All we can do is wait, and see what turns up.

For being innocent, Trump doesn't act like it, but that doesn't mean he is guilty, just dumb. But I suspect guilty of a bunch of things. I am happy to wait and see where the investigation goes.
__________________
____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:55 AM
 
5,116 posts, read 4,594,774 times
Reputation: 4369
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashrendar4454 View Post
What if the sky turns green?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
It does, sometimes.
I've even seen a green sky. It's a side effect of the local weather system being in a condition where tornadoes can form up. Scary stuff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Colorado
2,054 posts, read 1,237,425 times
Reputation: 4302
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
With the FBI's confiscation of decades of files and likely audio files from Michael Cohen's offices and home and safety deposit box the intensity of uncovering actual/physical evidence of "collusion" in the election between Trump et al and Russia, GRU Hackers and aides like Assange seems to grow exponentially....

There is new article from McClatchy that says Mueller has two sources proving Trump's Michael Cohen WAS in Prague, dealing with paying off Russian hackers for trolling Clinton and other work--which Cohen has vehemently denied and sued Buzzfeed over its publishing the Steele Dossier which included that point of information...
I saw a blog where woman had given pretty specific and detailed info about Cohen's movements in that week of August and his access to private planes that made the trip to Prague very plausible...
Maybe Gates and Nadar were able to give Mueller specific insight into Cohen's movements--

My concern is IF the evidence become uncontrovertable that Trump's campaign did have direct financial and electronic input and assistance from Russia--even at somewhat of a distance--like using same hackers the GRU has used before in other elections---
Like finding evidence of Russian money coming into the RNC to finance not just Trump but other GOP campaigns

How do you deal with a totally corrupt presidency?
And I don't mean Trump's nepotism or making money or wasting money--
I mean a president who was elected because that election was a fraud!

You can throw out Trump and Pence (who was riding that campaign trail and can't be viewed as clean of any corruption just because he says he is--after all we know he has lied specifically about his knowledge of Flynn's lies and other issues)
There is a method for doing that but the replacement leads to the Speaker of the House--
Paul Ryan--who was directly involved in the election with the RNC funding of other candidates...then the President pro tempore of the Senate--then into the Cabinet (which would be an illegal/improper option)...
Even Mattis would be tainted simply because Trump picked him...

If the RNC was compromised--hacked by Russia and blackmailed because of it--then Ryan's credibility could be impugned
After all he has certainly not taken any significant/permanent steps to rein Nunes in or support the House's committees to investigate Russian interference...
He attempts to wash his hands of anything that might mean taking a real stance...

How could Gorsach still be allowed to sit on the Supreme Court if he was nominated by a President who came to office via Russian hacking the election? Or any other judges he nominated who made it through the approval process?
How could a tax bill that a fraudulent president signed be law of the land?
How could any of his immigration policies or actions of his Cabinet be allowed to stand...

I jus think the real Constitutional crisis is going to come not because Trump might try to fire Rosenstein or Sessions or interfere even more with Mueller's investigation--
But what do we do as a nation IF that investigation can prove that Trump is really a tool of Putin or at least came to win the election because of direct input from foreign sources???

I just don't think you can say we use the Speaker (who already said he is not running in 18) and his appointees to fill the void until 2020...
I have to admit, I wonder about this as well. As much as I dislike Trump and Pence and would like them out, the thought that for the past year and a half, we had pretenders to the throne worries me a lot.

One of my questions would be that if Trump is POTUS only due to foreign interference (and thereby, Pence is only VP due to that interference), then does that mean Clinton actually *is* the POTUS? Or do we go down the chain of command as set in the Constitution? (I could honestly see arguments for both sides.) If we go the Clinton route, then how do we deal with the fact that the first year and a half of her term was 'hijacked'? Not to mention there'll always be a segment that will believe *she's* not the legitimate POTUS. If we go down the CoC, then all the problems you outlined apply--plus, it would almost come across as 'legitimizing' Trump's presidency, and if it were fraudulent, do we want that?

It's a worrisome question.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:58 AM
 
5,116 posts, read 4,594,774 times
Reputation: 4369
But it's correct to say that "collusion" isn't a crime. But that's only because "collusion" is a synonym for "conspiracy". And conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,690 posts, read 10,091,011 times
Reputation: 7590
Iím no lawyer, but if there is one reading this, maybe you can answer this question.

If the search warrant was issued in the investigation of Cohen, is any evidence they find against Trump, even admissible? Isnít Trump still covered by attorney-client privilege?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top