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Old 07-24-2018, 07:45 AM
 
6,964 posts, read 2,484,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It wasn't tight. Wasn't even close. It was an EC landslide. 304 to 227.
By a total of 77,000 votes in 3 states.
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:52 AM
 
6,304 posts, read 3,553,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
It isn't that simple. Incumbents hold an advantage. A lot of people prefer the "devil you know." Of course, they didn't do that in 2016 - but that also wasn't an incumbent running.

I think the key question that will be answered in Nov 2020 is how much of a fluke (or not!) that 2016 was, specifically in PA MI and WI. Did Trump flip votes or did Democrat supporters just not show up? It is hard to be sure. Of course, it isn't a binary decision here. Trump could have flipped some, he could have increased turn-out of normally abstaining voters and he/Clinton could have turned-off Democratic supporters.

If Trump needed Democrat turn-out to be low AND Republican turnout to be very high - it may be hard for him to repeat. He already got the "swing votes" in those states possibly. Even if he retained those but Democrats show up at the polls to support their candidate, he might have a hard time winning.

A lot can happen between now and 2020. Who knows? The 2020 elections might not even mention North Korea, Russia, caging toddlers, etc. There may be other crises at the top of the list instead.
https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/201...n_youth_v.html

If these young, new voters get out and do vote both in 2018/2020, it will have an impact. Remember, PA has been redistricted.

Then there is Florida, beside youth voters, where many Puerto Ricans have relocated to after the Hurricane; what is called the I-4 Corridor. There have been demographic changes since 2016 which might have an impact.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:15 AM
 
643 posts, read 180,607 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daywalk View Post
Hillary Clinton got nearly 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016. She was the PEOPLE's choice for President while Trump was selected by the system called the Electoral College which not everyone's rights were equal.
There was no major push by Democrats to abolish the EC in 2000.( I expected there to be)

There was no major push by Democrats to abolish the EC in 2016. ( I expected one )

Democrats like to cry that something is " unfair" but not "unfair" enough to get organized and do something.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:31 PM
 
78,184 posts, read 33,318,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
By a total of 77,000 votes in 3 states.
It was Donald Trump, it should have never been close.
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Old 07-26-2018, 05:10 AM
 
66,286 posts, read 30,185,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
By a total of 77,000 votes in 3 states.
The US doesn't elect a president via a popular vote. The election process is completed via the electoral college. It was an electoral college landslide. 304 to 227. Hillary wasn't even close.
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Old 07-26-2018, 05:24 AM
 
2,963 posts, read 3,043,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It was an electoral college ̶l̶a̶n̶d̶s̶l̶i̶d̶e̶ win. 304 to 227.
Fixed.

Listen, if 304 to 227 is a landslide, then every election since 1980 that did not include Bush 43 was a landslide. Or just say its hyperbole and let's move on. There is no doubt Trump won. It is a win if its 77,000 votes in 3 states or whether its 530 votes in one state (like 2000). However, I think it should give pause to think that your guy got elected by 77,000 votes - because it doesn't take much to flip it back the other way. But, don't just parrot what your Dear Leader says. Just because he said it was a landslide, doesn't make it so. Maybe 400+ is a landslide. I'm talking Reagan numbers here.

When I think of what happened in 2016, there were a lot of people that "took a flyer" on Trump. Remember "What do you have to lose?" Trump's got his base already. They aren't leaving no matter what. But, I think the people that "took a chance" know what they got now. How many of them stay on board for another round? I have my doubts that people that voted for Clinton are going to flip to Trump in 2020 or support Trump candidates in 2018. I think Trump's support can only go down from its peak.

It'll be a while before we know the answer though.
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Old 07-30-2018, 12:19 PM
 
1,789 posts, read 1,128,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
Fixed.

Listen, if 304 to 227 is a landslide, then every election since 1980 that did not include Bush 43 was a landslide. Or just say its hyperbole and let's move on. There is no doubt Trump won. It is a win if its 77,000 votes in 3 states or whether its 530 votes in one state (like 2000). However, I think it should give pause to think that your guy got elected by 77,000 votes - because it doesn't take much to flip it back the other way. But, don't just parrot what your Dear Leader says. Just because he said it was a landslide, doesn't make it so. Maybe 400+ is a landslide. I'm talking Reagan numbers here.

When I think of what happened in 2016, there were a lot of people that "took a flyer" on Trump. Remember "What do you have to lose?" Trump's got his base already. They aren't leaving no matter what. But, I think the people that "took a chance" know what they got now. How many of them stay on board for another round? I have my doubts that people that voted for Clinton are going to flip to Trump in 2020 or support Trump candidates in 2018. I think Trump's support can only go down from its peak.

It'll be a while before we know the answer though.
I agree it's a win, not a landslide. A solid win however.

Had he won MN, CO, NH, VA and NV that would have been a landslide. If he campaigned more in NH and MN it's a possibility but there's no way NV and CO were going to flip.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:12 PM
 
871 posts, read 221,455 times
Reputation: 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
I think its fair and brilliant how the Electoral College works. Opinion, just my opinion as well as MILLIONS of People.
Yes, but the thing is, your opinion is probably only recently formed and clearly has bias. Abolishing the electoral college is something that a super-majority of Americans, regardless of party affiliation, were in favor of from 1948-2011, according to polls by Gallup.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/198917/...s-sharply.aspx
https://news.gallup.com/vault/192704...l-college.aspx
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...oes-it-prevail

We should soul search on all of our beliefs. Those currently in support of the EC should ask themselves a couple of questions:

1) Was I against the EC prior to 2016 or 2000? Did I even haven an opinion on it at all?
2) Would I feel the same way if those elections had gone to my party's opponent instead of my candidate?

And let's stop with the "we're a republic, not a democracy" line. As a nation, we've been trending more democratic since before the ink dried on the Constitution.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:37 PM
509
 
2,922 posts, read 4,052,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsuperfly View Post

And let's stop with the "we're a republic, not a democracy" line. As a nation, we've been trending more democratic since before the ink dried on the Constitution.
Not really. It was Andrew Jackson that really got that trend going.

But the Constitution is a pact between the states and the Federal government. Which is why the electoral college showed up. It is just that the states have faded in influence over the years and the Federal government has increased their power.

In the Civil War, the Confederates got a lot great military folks since people at that time identified more with state than the Federal government.

I personally would like us to become a bit more like Canada where the Provinces have more power.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:04 PM
 
18,709 posts, read 7,268,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by informedconsent View Post
the us doesn't elect a president via a popular vote. The election process is completed via the electoral college. it was an electoral college landslide. 304 to 227. hillary wasn't even close.
bingo.
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