Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
Reputation: 3587
Advertisements
Our Dear Iraqi Friends:
For over 1000 years you guys have been at each other's throats. You have seemed to enjoy things like a dictatorship, bloody wars over which brand of your religion is the better brand and just bullcrap in general.
You said you hated Saddam and you wanted democracy so we gave over 4000 of our American fathers, husbands, sons and - yes- even a few wives and daughters to your cause. We have given you over 5 years of our lives, time and drained our own economy of almost a trillion dollars to get rid of your despised dictator and give you a chance at freedom and democracy. We have been more than patient with you as your leaders have bickered, bellowed and bitched with each other constantly.
And you have continued to not only kill each other in droves but to shoot at us as well. Our patience has ran out. We are packing up and within 12 months there will not be a single American soldier in this country.
We have tried to give you the gift of freedom and democracy that we take for granted in America everyday. You have not proven that you want it. So as we leave, you will have to figure out the future of your own country. If you want to kill each other, go for it. If you want peace and democracy, we will assist you but not with the lives of our soldiers any longer.
It is your country and your future. You have to live in it. Choose wisely and remember this old saying- not even a dog craps in its own bed.
That well be a remarkable speech... Many countries including ours have gone through there own civil war. Let the Iraqs duel it out themselfs and lets save our men and women in the armed services for better use. E.g., The U.S./Mexican border, where for those who are not following, the situation there is getting really, really bad.
As a soldier who was in Iraq when GEN Petreaus took command of MNF-I, I have followed his strategy closely. His intent was to increase troop levels in Iraq to bring down insurgent violence so the Iraq government would have the opportunity to succeed. So far, they have squandered that opportunity. Everyone I can think of, left and right, agrees on this.
I think whoever the next president is will have to face this reality and deal with it. The current Iraq government is inept and will continue to be so for the forseeable future. Personally, I think there is a good chance that as Iraq develops it will become a better ally to Iran than to us. So what should we do?
John McCain's plan seems simple: we stay until we can bring insurgent and terrorist activity down to acceptable levels. Once they are at acceptable levels, we stay for a long, long time .. possibly 100 years. No, I'm not misquoting him on this, so please don't parrot the MM (minor media) and say I am. His vision is for Iraq to become like South Korea or Germany.. just one more stop on the tour for volunteer forces. That entails us staying there until the violence becomes negligible... something that still seems years and years away.
If you watched the testimony on the war on CSPAN this past week, you saw that most experts agree -- the American public will not tolerate McCain's plan. The political will for this war is spent. I can tell you as a member of the armed forces that this war is taking a heavy toll on retention. It's reasonable to ask sailors, soldiers and Marines to go to war .. that's what we do, that's what we signed up for. It's a bit much to ask them to spend 15 months in combat, 12 months home and 15 months in combat in a neverending cycle. Some will do this indefinitely, but a lot more will simply walk when their current contract is up. That's happening in record numbers.
We're going to have to face up to this. One retired general told Congress last week that for the first time since the Civil War, American troop levels are determining policy rather than policy determining troop levels. That's not good.
So what do we do? I agree with the OP, in part. We need to give the Iraq government a deadline -- tell them they have 12 months (or more or less) and then we walk. Yes, this will strengthen the resolve of the insurgency and terrorist groups in Iraq like AQI. They will simply wait us out, which they are already doing, but it will also let the current Iraqi government know that we are not going to subsidize it indefinitely. If they are serious about retaining power, they must strengthen their resolve too and fight off the insurgency.
If we withdraw from Iraq, we lose nothing because we basically have nothing there to lose. Its current government is not a reliable, stable ally. We can and should stay in the region. As far as I know, the Kuwaitis still appreciate us and the significant part we played in their recent history. They will probably tolerate large troop numbers in Kuwait. With US troops just across the border, we can move into Iraq as necessary and we can make sure that whatever disaster befalls the country won't inflame the region. Our nearby presence will hopefully act as a deterence to Iran from an out and out invasion of the country.
I think that this is where American policy toward Iraq and the Middle East is heading. I think that if any of the top three contenders were elected this is what they would eventually do .. McCain might take a little longer to do it than Obama or Hillary, but I think this is the course of action he would ultimately choose.
If any one else has any better ideas, I'd like to hear them.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb
As a soldier who was in Iraq when GEN Petreaus took command of MNF-I, I have followed his strategy closely. His intent was to increase troop levels in Iraq to bring down insurgent violence so the Iraq government would have the opportunity to succeed. So far, they have squandered that opportunity. Everyone I can think of, left and right, agrees on this.
I think whoever the next president is will have to face this reality and deal with it. The current Iraq government is inept and will continue to be so for the forseeable future. Personally, I think there is a good chance that as Iraq develops it will become a better ally to Iran than to us. So what should we do?
John McCain's plan seems simple: we stay until we can bring insurgent and terrorist activity down to acceptable levels. Once they are at acceptable levels, we stay for a long, long time .. possibly 100 years. No, I'm not misquoting him on this, so please don't parrot the MM (minor media) and say I am. His vision is for Iraq to become like South Korea or Germany.. just one more stop on the tour for volunteer forces. That entails us staying there until the violence becomes negligible... something that still seems years and years away.
If you watched the testimony on the war on CSPAN this past week, you saw that most experts agree -- the American public will not tolerate McCain's plan. The political will for this war is spent. I can tell you as a member of the armed forces that this war is taking a heavy toll on retention. It's reasonable to ask sailors, soldiers and Marines to go to war .. that's what we do, that's what we signed up for. It's a bit much to ask them to spend 15 months in combat, 12 months home and 15 months in combat in a neverending cycle. Some will do this indefinitely, but a lot more will simply walk when their current contract is up. That's happening in record numbers.
We're going to have to face up to this. One retired general told Congress last week that for the first time since the Civil War, American troop levels are determining policy rather than policy determining troop levels. That's not good.
So what do we do? I agree with the OP, in part. We need to give the Iraq government a deadline -- tell them they have 12 months (or more or less) and then we walk. Yes, this will strengthen the resolve of the insurgency and terrorist groups in Iraq like AQI. They will simply wait us out, which they are already doing, but it will also let the current Iraqi government know that we are not going to subsidize it indefinitely. If they are serious about retaining power, they must strengthen their resolve too and fight off the insurgency.
If we withdraw from Iraq, we lose nothing because we basically have nothing there to lose. Its current government is not a reliable, stable ally. We can and should stay in the region. As far as I know, the Kuwaitis still appreciate us and the significant part we played in their recent history. They will probably tolerate large troop numbers in Kuwait. With US troops just across the border, we can move into Iraq as necessary and we can make sure that whatever disaster befalls the country won't inflame the region. Our nearby presence will hopefully act as a deterence to Iran from an out and out invasion of the country.
I think that this is where American policy toward Iraq and the Middle East is heading. I think that if any of the top three contenders were elected this is what they would eventually do .. McCain might take a little longer to do it than Obama or Hillary, but I think this is the course of action he would ultimately choose.
If any one else has any better ideas, I'd like to hear them.
Well, he's probably not going to get my vote, but I wouldn't count him out. A lot is going to happen between now and November, and I don't think Iraq is going to be the main issue on voters' minds when they go to the polls.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb
Well, he's probably not going to get my vote, but I wouldn't count him out. A lot is going to happen between now and November, and I don't think Iraq is going to be the main issue on voters' minds when they go to the polls.
No it will probably be the economy with higher unemployment and the soon to return rampant inflation caused by the Fed printing too much money for Bush to spend on his war in Iraq. And you can bet that Obama will tie the two of them togther and wrap it around John McCain's neck like a Columbian necktie!
No it will probably be the economy with higher unemployment and the soon to return rampant inflation caused by the Fed printing too much money for Bush to spend on his war in Iraq. And you can bet that Obama will tie the two of them togther and wrap it around John McCain's neck like a Columbian necktie!
KevK .. I have a hunch that Obama would make an outstanding president, particularly in the foreign policy arena. I'm pulling for him; however, I don't think we've heard the last of the Rev Wright thing. I think the GOP is going to portray Obama as an out-of-touch wacky liberal loony who is probably just an angry, bitter black man who hates America underneath it all. It's just too easy to fracture the electorate along racial lines. The GOP has mastered the art of making reasonable people look like freaks who belong more on Ken Kessey's Electric Acid Kool Aid bus than they do in the White House. With Obama, well, this is like giving candy to a baby.. a black man, raised by a hippy, spent time in Indonesia, attends a church that preaches liberation theology (what is that commie crap???!!!??? joe average asks). We'll see how it plays out.
No it will probably be the economy with higher unemployment and the soon to return rampant inflation caused by the Fed printing too much money for Bush to spend on his war in Iraq. And you can bet that Obama will tie the two of them togther and wrap it around John McCain's neck like a Columbian necktie!
So electing a tax and spend Democrat will help? Seriously?
So electing a tax and spend Democrat will help? Seriously?
I would also like an explanation on how BHO could possibly be good for the economy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
