Not completely against eliminating the electoral college, but don't listen to lefitst propaganda as to why it exists. (house of representatives, voters)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am a lifelong republican leaning towards libertariansim who is not compeltely against scrapping the electoral college section. I don't think it will ever happen, but I think it is a fair conversation as to whether we still need it. Let's have the dialog.
But let us do something that some...some modern leftists hate, and TELL THE TRUTH as to why it exists in the first place. The Pelosi/Schumer crowd tells you it is becase the elitists did not trust the judgement of the people, and wanted the ability to negate the votes of the common people, who they considered rabble.
Some leftsits believe and purport this because they are uneducated or dishonest. Part of the rasion d'etre for the electoral college was that it simplifed what was for the technology of the day a very difficult process. In that respect, I think it is legitimate to discuss whether or not it is still relevant.
HOWEVER...
The big, philosophical reason for the electoral college is indeed to give smaller states a lever against bigger ones, and mirros the idea of giving each state two Senators regarless of population, whereas the House of Representatives is based on population. Representation is partially based on importance as a population center, and partially based on the idea of states being CO-EQUAL.
Similarly, presidents are elected partially by popular vote, and partially though the filter of being the choice of the most sovereign state governements.
When Trump loses the popular vote but wins an electoral landslide, this is EXACTLY as the founders envisioned. It is saying that Hillary Clinton is not acceptable to way of life of the majority of sovereign state governments.
Nor is this any mystery to those who are actually interested. The election of presidents through both the NATIONAL and FEDERAL principles is clearly ennunciated in the Federalist 39, written by James Madison. I have a copy of the Federalist papers on my shelf next to the constitution, and Locke's Second Treatise on Government.
Last edited by cachibatches; 01-06-2019 at 04:45 PM..
The purpose of the electoral college is to preserve the Republic. However, the college only verified what the Trump Clinton electoral map showed. It's fairly obvious. More people in more states voted for Trump.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,604,784 times
Reputation: 9169
The electoral college was devised because back in the early days of the country, the majority was illiterate and most did not have access to news or other outside information
Is it any surprise to anyone that the Dems want to eliminate the EC? It cost them the last election Bigly and it is going to play again in 2020.
The West coast as the East coast votes Democrat and that is all they care about. I'm sure the Dems would like to skip right over the Bible holding, Gun toting, Freedom loving Deplorables that make up the rest of the country.
The EC was put in place for a reason and we need to keep it.
The more the Dems try to alter the rules and sway elections their way the more we are fighting the real tyranny.
Capping the population of a House district to 100K would go a long way to getting back to what the founders intended AND correct the issues the Democrats have with the EC and would not require a constitutional amendment. The population in the UK represented by a member of the House of Commons is 90K. I once saw a wiki post that the US House was the least representative democratic body in the free world at about 750,000 population per representative, the California Senate was second at 735,000 per district. That was a few years ago, I am sure it is worse now.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
Is it any surprise to anyone that the Dems want to eliminate the EC? It cost them the last election Bigly and it is going to play again in 2020.
Nonsense! I was in high school in the '60s when I first paid attention to the EC method of electing a POTUS and thought it one of the silliest things I ever heard, this at a time when I was too young to vote, didn't favor a party but thought LBJ dead wrong for deepening our involvement in Vietnam.
The electoral college was devised because back in the early days of the country, the majority was illiterate and most did not have access to news or other outside information
This absolutely incorrect, the EC was put in place to protect the individual liberty and the sovereignty of your State.
The process of the electoral college was established to ensure that the person elected to be president of these United States would accurately represent the union as a whole, not favoring certain States while ignoring others. The office of president, contrary to popular belief, was never designed to be a representative of individual citizens, but rather a representative of the collective interests of the States. One has to understand the the president of the United States does not represent the people. Look at Article 2 of the Constitution, this defines the powers of the President. The POTUS is not the leader of the United States, this is why we have 3 branches of government, all equal. All 3 branches of government lead the United States. The POTUS only leads the military during a time of declared war. He is part of the treaty process that makes contractual agreements with foreign governments and the States. Most everything that the president is to do, he does only with the consent of the Senate (the voice of the States) and together, the President and the Senate ensure that each State’s interests are represented equally in matters of war, peace, and foreign commerce.
There is no power in the Constitution that authorizes the President to directly affect the lives of the people. The only power that the POTUS has that would directly affect the lives of the people would be the power of the pardon, and that only exist to provide checks and balances on the judiciary, not as a form of personal favors. Because the president’s role in government is to be an ambassador on behalf of the States, the States must choose their representative. The popular vote for president that takes place within the State ensures that the principles and the interests of the people of that State guide and direct the electors in their choice of president. The problem is,it is not the people that get to choose their electors but the political parties. This would not change with a national popular vote.
The National Popular Vote would eliminate the States voice all together, and the voice of the minority. Consent of the governed limits government. citizens have the right to vote, citizens can use their vote to change the government, citizens can even change the constitution by voting. Rights of the minority limits government. limits the power of the majority, makes sure everyone is treated fairly, protects even small or unpopular groups. The NPV movement would eliminate this, it would make States with the least amount of population bend to the will of larger populated States, so States like Florida, California, Texas and New York would get most of the federal government attention and spending to insure a re-election bid.
I am a lifelong republican leaning towards libertariansim who is not compeltely against scrapping the electoral college section. I don't think it will ever happen, but I think it is a fair conversation as to whether we still need it. Let's have the dialog.
But let us do something that some...some modern leftists hate, and TELL THE TRUTH as to why it exists in the first place. The Pelosi/Schumer crowd tells you it is becase the elitists did not trust the judgement of the people, and wanted the ability to negate the votes of the common people, who they considered rabble.
I do not believe I have ever heard them make this argument. Do you have any verification?
The electoral college was also crafted at a time when Americans did not directly vote for the POTUS. There was not a ballot with a presidential candidate that ordinary general voters selected from. Electors from the states chose the president. In the early years, the electors were not necessarily even voted on by the people as the majority of states had their legislatures choose them. The history of the system is that it has evolved over time and needs to once again.
The electoral college was devised because back in the early days of the country, the majority was illiterate and most did not have access to news or other outside information
I am not sure that is the reason it was devised. The reason we have it is to assure fair representation for all. Without it the larges cities and states would be solely be able to control the outcome of all presidentual elections.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
