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Old 04-10-2008, 12:31 PM
 
1,544 posts, read 2,263,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypad View Post
I will be sitting out November and hoping the country survives one of these loons over the next four years. Maybe we as a nation can get up enough guts and smarts to recruit a real leader next time round. Starting now would be good.
u have has a moron for the last 4 years so whats new ??
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Albemarle, NC
7,730 posts, read 14,102,677 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
As a Dem, it is refreshing to hear from some conservatives who remember what conservatism was supposed to be about. If the Republican party actually practiced true conservatism then it wouldn't be that hard to live with them. Why you let the neocons and religious right take over your agenda I'll never know. Small government, real freedoms and fiscal responsibility - your party has lost it all. It's nuts . . .
Ron Paul said it best. The people haven't left the Republican party. The party left them. Many are unhappy. And lots are moving to Independent rather than be hounded by the RNC for donations.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:02 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,719,388 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
I don't think it's absolutely impossible for the GOP to win, but I agree it's going to be very difficult. Some of that 32 percent of people who STILL support GWB don't realize what a thumping they are about to get. I shook my head in disbelief when I read the thread yesterday where an poster really believes the Democratic party is on the eve of destruction due to the Wright dust up ??!!??

All the Democrats need to do to win this year is portray McCain as another Bush. McCain can of course deny this and point out all of the ways he's not Bush, but that's going to anger the far right who truly believe in their heart of hearts that Americans don't want children to learn about evolution or that public schools are nothing more than bastions of communism and state control or that global warming is just a giant socialist conspiracy to thumb capitalism in the eye or that it truly is their business if a person is a homosexual.

McCain is in a pickle: either he campaigns trying to convince the conservatives he really is one of them -- thereby turning off the 68 percent of Americans who have disapproved of Bush policies for almost two years now; or he points out all of the ways he's not Bush ... his stance on global warming, his fairly reasonable and non radical approach to things ... angering the base.

Meanwhile, all Obama has to do is reinforce: yep, I'm not Bush. I don't support Bush policies .. never have. Yep, I'm brilliant. I was the best student of the best law school in the nation. Yep, I know how to string together a grammatically correct English sentence with a couple of four-syllable words in it.. I know it's been awhile since you've heard one of those from a president.
I think there may be some wishful thinking on both sides of the political aisle. If history is any guide this election, like every election since 1988, is going to be close. If you support Obama and don't believe that you may be in for a rude awakening. What Lanny Davis was saying is that there is a large segment of the electorate that is made uncomfortable by Obama. Of course he was just focusing on the Wright controversy without regard to substantive issues because Obama and Clinton are two peas in a pod on the issues. But Obama represents a decidedly leftward lurch in political philosophy that people may not be prepared to follow. That plus the Wright controversy should temper any optimism regarding the likelihood of an Obama presidency.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
540 posts, read 959,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
Meanwhile, all Obama has to do is reinforce: yep, I'm not Bush. I don't support Bush policies .. never have. Yep, I'm brilliant. I was the best student of the best law school in the nation. Yep, I know how to string together a grammatically correct English sentence with a couple of four-syllable words in it.. I know it's been awhile since you've heard one of those from a president.
That is all the Democratic nominee had to do in 2004 when they really were running against Bush - they still managed to screw it up. Obama is certainly a more formidable candidate than Kerry, but McCain can get to the hearts of the American people far better than Bush could.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:15 PM
 
607 posts, read 920,073 times
Reputation: 144
The GOP is about to face some major changes. They either need to completely revamp their platform to fit with true conservatism as other posters have said, by espousing goals like smaller government, sound economic policies, free markets, and non-intervention in people's daily lives (they could start by ending the War on Drugs and frivolous war spending and allowing gay couples to adopt the countless orphans we have living in this country), or the party is going to start losing a lot of members to the Libertarian Party. As old lifelong Republicans die off and new voters look for a party, they are becoming disenfranchised by the neocon philosophies of Bible-based politics, spreading democracy through wars, and pork galore.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:47 PM
 
12,998 posts, read 13,579,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trzlucky View Post
That is all the Democratic nominee had to do in 2004 when they really were running against Bush - they still managed to screw it up. Obama is certainly a more formidable candidate than Kerry, but McCain can get to the hearts of the American people far better than Bush could.
It was a little more complicated in 2004. Bush's numbers were an unbelievable 50 percent or so in 2004. I say unbelievable because anyone who could not figure out what kind of rank incompetence we were dealing with even four years ago just wasn't paying attention. To the credit of many Republicans (but not enough), some saw it back then.

Since Katrina, which I believe really blew the lid off this administration and exposed its inability to respond in the most basic of ways, his numbers have boiled down to 33 percent and have more or less remained there. Also, in 2004, it wasn't abundantly clear to those who weren't paying very close attention what a fiasco the war had become due to poor planning at the outset.

IMO though, the most important thing about 2004 was the American public had the choice of changing horses in midstream during war and ultimately (just barely) put there money on what they felt was a safer bet. Frankly, I think it is a testament to Bush's woeful lack of presidential qualifications and attributes that he was just barely managed to eek out a victory as a sitting president during wartime. In true Bush fashion, he then misread the election results, declared a landslide victory, thought the American public liked him, really liked him and set an agenda that people REALLY hated. (How in the world did he conclude he had the "capital" to take on Social Security?)

Anyways, past is past. I agree that McCain is no Bush clone. He's a very strong candidate and I think he would have made a good president had he been elected in 2000. I still think it's just too easy to tie him up by forcing him to simulatenously distance himself from Bush and other Republicans while convincing Republicans he's really one of them. That's a tough spot to be in.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:51 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 5,078,596 times
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If you are a conservative I can't possibly see why you would cross over to the Dem side to vote against McCain.

Stick with him and hope he gets a good VP nominee!

You'll have some support from Dems like me who can't stomach the far reaches of the left wing. He can win this one.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:00 PM
 
12,998 posts, read 13,579,157 times
Reputation: 11187
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
I think there may be some wishful thinking on both sides of the political aisle. If history is any guide this election, like every election since 1988, is going to be close. If you support Obama and don't believe that you may be in for a rude awakening. What Lanny Davis was saying is that there is a large segment of the electorate that is made uncomfortable by Obama. Of course he was just focusing on the Wright controversy without regard to substantive issues because Obama and Clinton are two peas in a pod on the issues. But Obama represents a decidedly leftward lurch in political philosophy that people may not be prepared to follow. That plus the Wright controversy should temper any optimism regarding the likelihood of an Obama presidency.
I think the Democrats are going to win handily this year because we are in the midst of an unpopular war, economists are actually throwing around phrases like "not since the Great Depression has..." on a pretty regular basis, and the current Republican president's approval ratings have been absymally low for 24 months.

I do see what you are saying though -- neither party can take votes for granted.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:40 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,142,889 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
I think the Democrats are going to win handily this year because we are in the midst of an unpopular war, economists are actually throwing around phrases like "not since the Great Depression has..." on a pretty regular basis, and the current Republican president's approval ratings have been absymally low for 24 months.

I do see what you are saying though -- neither party can take votes for granted.
I thought this way back in 2004 and low and behold. Give me complete control over the cable media outlets and in six months I could convince a large number of American's that drinking dog urine is superior to Viagra and it keeps terrorist away.

You will never go broke underestimating the American public.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Bridgetown, Ohio
526 posts, read 1,475,061 times
Reputation: 145
Default I Don't Think So

Not so fast -- I like McCain's chances primarily because who he will run against.
Hillary has unbelievably high negatives. If she somehow becomes the Democrat nominee, I can see droves of young idealistic voters and black voters sitting home.

As for Obama, he can't even win big primary elections in some of the states he would need to win in the general election (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas, etc.)

Plus our country is not ruled by a strinct party allegiance principle such as Great Britian is. So the fact that President Bush and John McCain are of the same party really has very little importance to the current race. If it DID, all McCain would have to do is point out that Obama (or Clinton) belong the the same party as Harry Reid, Nancy Palosi, Ted Kennedy, etc.
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